How to adjust/Edit pictures like Jill Greenberg?

[jamaldn]

Can anyone sharing idea on how to adjust pics to be like this (Like Art)?

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Picture Credit: Jill Greenberg (http://www.manipulator.com/) - Taken from Paul Kopeikin Gallery (http://www.paulkopeikingallery.com/artists/greenberg/exhibitions/endtimes/index.htm)

DearMod please do no erase this thread, I need it.

[jayhan]

I think you have given credit to the wrong photographer/artist who shot this image. The person who took this photo and also a series of similarly post processed images is, Jill Greenberg (visit Jill's gallery at http://www.manipulator.com/). Please rectify the error, or the mods will.

PS alone will not be able to achieve results like this, bro.
If you look into the kiddo's eyes, you can see there are at least 3 source of lights. My best guess for the lighting setup which was used on this portrait is : 1 on each side of the right and left, and 1 more from front (probably snooted).

Now with such lighting highlights, it would create a base image that has high contrasty regions. What I mean is a very clear cut definition of highlights versus "shadows". PS methodology of this image was purely, in my best guess, enhance and accentuate this values. Darken the shadows, lighten the highlights. Plus, further it slightly with some USM and also High Pass Filter.

You are probably looking at something which was done via many layers of blending and masking too.

Thats my best guess, though. :)

[noordin]

Superb picture. As Jay pointed out it's a studio shot and the picture started as a great portrait. Photoshopping using layers and adjustment, repeated over and over and finally sharpening achieved this.

Attend Manuel Libres Librodo class when he comes here in August. He teaches the PS steps to get this type of image.

[ykgen]

hmm i think this effect is better looking than dave hill.. not that cartoon..

[astroboy]

I would say at least 4 lights:
- left + right
- 1 background light (to create the glow on the backdrop behind)
- 1 rim light (probably snoot) to create rim lighting around the hair from behind

And 1 very unwilling subject :cool:

[jayhan]

Yes correct astroboy.

But if you were to attend Manuel Librodo's workshop, you might then know you can achieve this shot by using probably 3 lightsource instead of 4 ;) right or not noordin?? Especially omitting out the backdrop lighting. :P

[ShaolinTiger]

jamaldn I've edited your post as you didn't give proper credit to the original photographer nor the place where you took the image from.

Both raise issues with copyright.

The gallery in which the pictures are displayed is the Paul Kopeikin Gallery (incidentally you also spelt his name wrongly).

And the pictures are taken by Jill Greenberg as a part of her End Times series.

Also the picture had a watermark on from a site which was not associated with either place (cardomain?).

I have remove the watermark and added proper credit, please respect people's copyright in the future.

From my count I'd say probably 8 lights or more :)

As for the Photoshop I don't believe Manny teaches anything like this, and you wouldn't learn anything like this in his workshops as he teaches available light portraiture and techniques to enhance that.

This is extreme harsh studio (wrap-around) lighting, with extreme PS, like Jay says most likely high pass filter and high value USM.

[jamaldn]

Thank you for all of your help and advices. But have u all seen my friend Syahrin Aziz site? He's also well known and talented photographer. He did this type of graphics to many of his wedding pics. definitely wedding do not have 2 or 3 lights right?

Wacth his pic at this link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/syahrin/448079782/
and
http://www.flickr.com/photos/syahrin/443571339/

Picture Credit: Syahrin Aziz - Taken from http://www.flickr.com/photos/syahrin/page3/

[i]I
Now with such lighting highlights, it would create a base image that has high contrasty regions. What I mean is a very clear cut definition of highlights versus "shadows". PS methodology of this image was purely, in my best guess, enhance and accentuate this values. Darken the shadows, lighten the highlights. Plus, further it slightly with some [COLOR=Red]USM and also High Pass Filter.

You are probably looking at something which was done via many layers of blending and masking too.

Thats my best guess, though. :)

Bro what is USM?

[jayhan]

Jamal: I must say that in order to do this kinda PP effect, one need to understand the key components of contrast. High contrast is not only created by artificial lighting, it can also be achieved by natural lighting and "heavier" post processing. What Im saying is simply this : Flash photography (in a controlled form) can produce very high contrast images, and thus making this kinda PP easier to achieve.

While yes, Manny's workshop dont teach you this kinda PP technique specifically, but the base of lighting understanding is the same to me. Its the core that matters. Its how Manny "creates" lighting in Photoshop (I'd call it digital lighting now instead of real life lighting) to make it look as if flash was used when its not. So when you get this digitally created lighting, then you can start to apply this particular artistic PP then.

I hope what I said does make sense. :P For all I know, some of you guys might be still confused, but I'm willing to elaborate more if one ask - That is, to the best of my assumptions and know-how lah! Cheers!

[astroboy]

If u were to attend my course, i might teach u other things, too. My point is, there r many paths to the same goal. Cheers! :)

(kidding though... cos i dun give courses anymore).


Yes correct astroboy.

But if you were to attend Manuel Librodo's workshop, you might then know you can achieve this shot by using probably 3 lightsource instead of 4 ;) right or not noordin?? Especially omitting out the backdrop lighting. :P

I think u have nailed it. Available-light photography and studio lighting is like two different genres.

There's more that one has to grasp in terms of understanding the 100s of light modifiers inside a studio and it takes years of experimenting just to get a particular effect right. And the conditions change from studio to studio, colours of the wall, heights of the ceiling etc are all factors to consider.


As for the Photoshop I don't believe Manny teaches anything like this, and you wouldn't learn anything like this in his workshops as he teaches available light portraiture and techniques to enhance that.

This is extreme harsh studio (wrap-around) lighting, with extreme PS, like Jay says most likely high pass filter and high value USM.

[jayhan]

astroboy you used to give courses eh?
good good! revive it and why not start again? :)
And yes, to me, while I agree that Studio settings and also Available Natural Light is 2 different genre of photography; the availability of Photoshop and its powers can do wonders that closes the gap of the differences. I think many effects which can be only done via flash photography (back then) can also be now digitally achieved on a Natural Lighting shot.

For an example... this kiddo shot, how would I shoot this and turn it to become a flash lit shot? Here's how.

1. Place the kid in front of a light blue cloth in the open are where natural light is available
2. Use a reflector from his left and right to get the rim light effect (I know it wont be powerful and will be kinda soft)
3. One small reflector in his front, just for the catchlight into the eyes.
4. Take the shot (while he's crying :P)
5. Now into Photoshop (or Photochop), firstly lets make the highlights brighter at the sides of his cheeks, both left and right. Adjust till it look like flash effect.
6. Mask out 2 bars that run down from his eyes along his cheek and darken it a little bit (This will make the side lighting look more convincing as a flash lit shot.
7. Adjust the colors and stuff to make it even more convincing. :P
8. Finally, this is one part where Manny's padawans would be familiar with... darken the background, and clone out the kid. Also make a selective in circle with high feathering values... and mask out slowly to reveal a "glowing" background just behind the head of the kid.

Of course its not that simple as it sound, but its not something impossible.

Now would this be something which look like flash/studio shots? Not happy with colors? Adjust again. Heheh... Want a snooted effect? Colored gel effect? The list goes on and on. Oh the wonders of Photochop... i mean shop :P

[astroboy]

no time lah.. but seriously the path u r taking might lead u to this. (http://www.shutterasia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1133)

Stick to basics. As mentioned in another thread, get the photography right first. Think of Photoshop as an enhancement tool. Not a part of the image-capture process. Or u may disregard this as bad advice from an old man. Cheers! :)

astroboy you used to give courses eh?
good good! revive it and why not start again? :)

[jayhan]

astroboy,
naah i dont think the photography path will make any impact on how its gonna make the whole photography process obsolete. Its digital world now. Photography has evolve and will evolve over in time to come. I see it as a form of art, and art doesnt go obsolete. Yes, i do agree that Photoshop is an enhancement tool, but since I'm into art and not photojournalism, I will proceed on with the artistic side of photography.

Leonardo da Vinci didnt have a camera, and all it was about was paintings back then, but hey, people are still painting even until today - right? :) So photography is here to stay.

Cheers!

[jamaldn]

Dear Astroboy, when u will conduct class and how muc the cost and where? can i get the details please.

[astroboy]

i am NOT conducting courses anymore. The most i might do is organise field trips... but only for lovers of travel and landscapes. :)


Dear Astroboy, when u will conduct class and how muc the cost and where? can i get the details please.

[calvin Hollywood]

If you have many lights and place them very well ypu dont need much photoshop
what jay descibe sounds also good to me*g*
use the dodge and burn technique

lg Calvin

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[jayhan]

I think I did once experimented with dodge and burn technique...
it kinda brings out the shiny effect on the skin, which was also accentuated by the many lighting that is being angled correctly.

The picture provided by Calvin is a good example. It shows a cross lighting which can be then dodged at the highlights areas, and burned down more at the shadows. Thus it makes the subject appear more 3D like... like as though its popping out from the screen. :)

However I still couldnt figure out what to do with the midtones. Dodge or burn it? I tend to see color tones in 1/5th scales. That is:
- Highlights
- Half of highlights & midtones
- Midtones
- Half of midtones & shadows
- Shadows
So it makes me wonder how and what should I do with the dodging/burning of the 3/5th between Highlights and Shadows. :(

[arinaziz]

http://www.syahrinaziz.com/v1/images/20070705150457__mg_8798-raweded-crop2ed.jpg

[jamaldn]

Syahrin??? U are a new user here? Actually u r a GRAND SIFU why so late. can teach me a little how to adjust it

[qqmeng]

well... i hv no idea how the lighting s to be done, but i hv a software to do all this..pretty simple actually. cropped heavily for SA purposes:

Before
4331

after
4332

haha..ok ok i know it s a badly taken shot. but if the lighting was planned carefully i believe it would hv achieved what i want :(