DSLR or Prosumer Camera

[themagnificentman]

Hi ppl:D

I would like some opinions on this matter. I appreciate all your help and advices.

There are 4 cameras in my mind.

1. Panasonic FZ7.

I can get for some RM1k. Its silver in colour tho I prefer black(cost RM100+ more). But theres no free gifts like tripod, card, case etc. just the basic stuff.

2. Panasonic FZ8

Its black and its RM300 more.

3. Nikon D40 kit.

If lucky can get in lelong for some RM1500 above, but surely less than RM2k. Fotokem quoted me RM2k.

4. Canon S3 IS

If can get at RM800, tat would be great.

Now here is my dilemma. I am not quite sure as to which camera is best suited for me. The pana FZ7 is affordable but should I just get the FZ8 for RM300 more. Does the increase in price justify the increased performance?

If I were to get the FZ8, I might as well get a DSLR. But DSLR is a bit big and I'm more of the take-my-camera-and-go tat kind. However tat is hardly the issue. Since I'm venturing into amateur photographing, which camera should I get?A prosumer or DSLR? Of course money is a valid problem here.

Thank you all for your help and advice.

[genedavinci]

get a dslr.

[ShaolinTiger]

Get the D40, you won't regret, the performance is 100x better than the FZ8.

I really love the Panasonic cameras, especially the metal bodies, solid build quality, great features, good menus/buttons and beautiful pictures in daylight.

But when it gets dark or you need to do lowlight/indoor photography, you can forget it unless you want to blast everything with flash.

The D40 has superb low light (high-ISO) performance, so it's a better all rounder.

The 55-200mm VR Lens is cheap now too which will cover you with the kit lens the whole 18-200mm zoom range.

[themagnificentman]

hmmmm...really?

but money is quite an issue here..i'll have to see my luck if there's any other bargains on lelong for the D40..

n yea, i love panasonic for the metal body..its just cool..

any opinions on the canon S3 IS?

[Chrischong]

Of course, it also depends on your needs. If you're looking to shoot lots of telephoto pictures in daytime (say at the zoo, birdpark, portraits, etc), the Lumix FZ-series of cameras would be ideal.

The kit lenses that come with DSLRs only reach a maximum equivalent focal length of 70mm to 100mm, which is nothing compared to the 400+mm telephoto you'd get with an FZ7 or FZ8.

To get the same telephoto reach on a DSLR, you'd need to plonk down around RM800 or more for a reasonably good telephoto zoom lens.

However, DSLRs tend to have much better overall picture quality - not just sharpness, but also in terms of dynamic range, contrast, colours, tones and more.

Also, DSLR kit lenses start at a equivalent focal length of 28mm, which is wide enough for scenery shots, group photos and excellent for capturing holiday photos.

The Nikon D40 is an excellent budget DSLR for beginners and I'd recommend it to anybody who's thinking of getting a first DSLR.

But if you're REALLY tight on money, you might want to consider the Pentax K100D. I saw an ad in the papers today - it's going for RM1,999 if you trade in any used camera.

Pentax has a roadshow in Midvalley Megamall, KL from 27 june to 1 July - I assume you can get a camera there.

I've not used a K100D personally, but I hear its a good camera (at least, that's what the guys at www.dpreview.com (http://www.dpreview.com) say). I also know a group of semi-pro/pro photographers who swear by Pentax cameras so I suppose it'll meet your needs.

As far as lenses are concerned, you might want to visit Shriro Malaysia's website (http://www.shriro.com.my/p-pentax.asp) (the local distributor) and see if you like their selection. While it might not be within your budget now, you have to plan for the future too if you're buying a DSLR.

Not sure about the availability of third party lenses from Tamron/Sigma for Pentax cameras, though...

[xcaliber]

prosumer and dslr's prices are so insignificantly close now. go for broke, get a d40x, should be approx $2500. drop me a note and i'll give you the number.

[noordin]

Get the D40. About time you join the big bpys! :drunk:

[orionmystery]

Gotta agree with Chris. There's really very limited third party lenses for Pentax. I was going to get K10D, but changed my mind after discovering that Tamron doesn't offer its 17-50 f2.8 for Pentax mount. At least, that's what i found out on Tamron site.

[limgt]

If you're budget tight and just start to learn photography, I'd say go for the Canon S3 1S (IMO the best pro-sumer, besides the G series). Powered by a powerful 12x zoom plus great low light capability, you won't go wrong. Once you've learnt enough, and at the same time, saved enough, go for a mid-level dslr - i.e. at the moment would be Canon 400D or Nikon D50 & D80 - plus additional lenses depending on your needs then.

[Crazymalaysian]

Dont bother with the S3 IS, when they've replaced it with the S5 IS.

The Lumix FZ-50 is the best prosumer you can get, and a better camera in many ways over the S3 IS, which is why they arent even marketed at the same price points.

However I must say, if you can afford a decent DSLR, go ahead and get it. Do not be fooled by high pixel counts, they dont usually mean much.

[reds]

if you want a camera for serious hobby, buy a dslr. expect to spend at least 3-4k in your first year. at first it will be a basic kit for around 2k+ and once you go for outing or TT, you'll be poisoned to get a flash and a lens that suits your preferred type of photography. infact, it won't be long before you realize the limitation of the kit lens and start reading lens reviews. since money is an issue, there are some choices in entry level dspr- D40, E410, 350D and K100D. these are solid cameras and as long as you are not dreaming to spend over 10k on lenses and accessories, any would be fine with you.

BUT if you want a camera for travelling or occassionally take photos of families, i strongly recommend to go for a compact. it's cheap, easy to use and does not require much post processing (an almost must for dslr). you can tuck it in your pocket and smuggle it anywhere. you don't have to worry about leaving a 2kg dslr set in the car or hauling it everywhere. once you are addicted to photography, you can buy a dslr 2 years from now when the technology is way more advanced.

[themagnificentman]

Thank you everyone for advise.

I'm actually alternating between serious photgraphy (university activities, events, nature etc etc) and light moments (party, travelling, special occasions). Which is why I put prosumer cameras into account. Getting a compact render me inflexibility.I was looking at Ixus 850/900. More expensive than FZ7. And yes, I like zooming.

yes, i know FZ50 has always caught my eye but the price tag is just some RM200 away from D40. I'd rather get D40 then IF I can afford RM2k.

Please do bear in mind I'm still a student, cant afford RM2k plus poison. Budget IS a VALID restriction. haih..

CAnon S5 IS is expensive. cant afford.

which leave me to these:
FZ7 and Canon S3 IS. since D40 is really out of range now,

I believe FZ8 is not worthy of the RM300 upgrade? FZ7/8 user, pls share ur experience. TQ!!

RE: Chris

Pentax I have heard good recommendations. But if its RM2k, I would go for D40 cos Fotokem quoted me RM2k plus all the freebies. (but still too much.) ..
thx man

[Freaky]

Have you thought about looking around for a 2nd hand dslr to begin with... Even an older Prosumer would be a very good buy for someone starting out.

Many people get hooked on pixel counts, image stabilisers, sensor cleaning and other things that gets "marketed"...

There's nothing wrong with some of the older models cam which can be picked up at a good bargain. I bought a sony DSC-717 many yrs ago that cost me over 4K. It has mega pixs and i still produces good pics and I still use it.

2nd hand now, you sould prob pick one up for way under 1K...*die*

5megapix would be able to print A4 size without any lose of detail which is more than adequate for most people....

Even 2nd hand dslr such as 300D would be sufficient for you to start with and then you could build up on lenses slowly.

If money was the main issue, that's what i would do...

[Kickers]

I think S5-IS (550grams) is out of the question – batteries is already a problem ( 4 AA batteries X 3 Sets = 12 batteries ) light weight camera, I don’t think so. Also, NIMH battery has a very high rate of self discharge(means that the battery gets discharged even if you don't use them over a period of time).

Move on to Panasonic fz7 (340 grams) and fz8, very little improvement from the predecessor. The image sensor size is the same so the extra mega pix and the higher ISO are not worth the extra money. The advantages on the fz7 are movie clips, live viewing, super zoom, light weight considering the super-zoom. Disadvantage will be the using high ISO and the normal angle not wide enough (can add a wide angle converter – Expensive)

If the weight and the $$$ are not the issue, the D40 or D40x (522 grams) is a better bet.
For the dslr offer better perfomance pic quality at higher ISO, interchangeable lenses, and more manual controls to say a few. Most likely the D40 will make you spent more money later on lenses, external flash, acess.. and maybe a tripod.
:D:D:D

[lu_fc2001]

i am using a fz50 lumix...bought it in singapore at a price of S$800 ( about rm 1700 here ) in november 2006...still really havent got chance to seriously use it yet...up to now i have added a wide angle lens adaptor, a ND neutral filter lens, a polarizer lens and a simple TTL suntax flash (S$120) which I still have problem trying to match it with the camera...cannot get the right setting..picture always have top and bottom dark and only the center illuminated...any one knows what is the problem here? BTW also has a spare extra power battery as well

The camera shop at ground floor pertama kompleks is selling the eos400d with the standard kit at rm2600!! and the D40X at rm 2350!! cannot find that price anywhere else....i am really tempted to sell off my lumix fz50 with all its peripherals for rm2K and thinking of going for one of these 2.,,anyone interested? :drunk:

[ckchowov]

I am having S2IS and FZ50, both producing pleasing images. At high ISO (low light conditions like party, wedding dinner, meeting room,), noise is a problem. But still within control with skillful( me-lah ) noise reduction and limited print size( 4R ).

[noruazumi]

since we are comparing D40 and prosumer camera, i would say go for D40.
(if we are comparing D40 with other dSLR, it would definitely be a diff. story).

dSLR can do wonders.
you can do basically anything with it, EVEN with kit lens.
i didn't say prosumer is not good.
i've seen someone use camera phone, and the pictures look better than mine.

if u r on a tight budget, don't buy it now.
save extra money to get a decent dSLR, in this case D40.

[clemong888]

if u`re really interested in photography, i do suggest u jump to a dslr. whats the point of spending 1000+ now only to find it not enough in half a yrs time. u prolly cant get a good 2nd hand value, then u might hafta save longer for a dslr. of course,however, if u really need to shoot now, by all means any camera would do. better a picture than none for memories :D

[themagnificentman]

thx every1 for feedback.

I have actually scout for some 2nd hand DSLR and FZ50/30, but all in the range of RM1k plus..which is why I rather get a new one.

DSLR- expensive and heavy,
tats the concern.

because I'm more to the kinda of on the go people, grab camera, snap, move around, snap..hand around, snap..
dun really plan for anything, if got any events or anything, I'm all ready tat kind.

n yes, now i dun really have a dedicated camera, have to borrow from frens, very problematic, cant explore the lightening, exposure, experiment etc etc..

I actually plan to get a camera decent enough to learn some skills and to last for some 1,2 yrs while getting good pics especially under low lights( party is always a boomer). then only might be planning to get a serious camera when I have enough cash because by tat time DSLR might have dropped to some RM1k plus..since D40 is already at RM2k line.

oh ya, theres someone selling off his Panasonic FZ30

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/448017

around RM1.3k
used 1 yr+
13k shutter count.

for tat price i can get a new FZ8, FZ7, S3 IS and also S5 IS de.
would appreciate comments. Thank you!!

[reds]

if you tight in budget, you better look for the best value. see what attribute that is most important to you and identify the best camera for it within budget range. then only you look for the best price.

most important question is- what is most important to you in a camera? is it the ability to fire 5 fps, multiple flash firing, fast AF, sensor cleaning, 400mm zoom, anti shake, lightweight body, low noise etc? all these features are useful up to certain extend and not just marketing hype (though been abused quite a lot) and they are there for you to pick and use. identify which you like best and the camera that has it.

2nd hand is ok but bring a friend who is experienced to check the condition.

[reds]

FZ30 receive many skeptical reviews for performance under low light. you better check the reviews for yourself ie in dpreview.

[themagnificentman]

noted,

and thx for the priority listing.

1. great pics
2. easy to carry around
3. fast AF, fast enough to capture tat moment
4. good low light performance
5. anti shake
6. ultra zom and underwater capabilities (add ons available)
7. lotsa features to explore and experiment

forget to mention tat i would love to try photgraphing near water environments but cant risk water getting into the camera.

[Chrischong]

How about a 2nd-hand camera?

If you're not too fussy about scratches, dents or other superficial imperfections, you could opt for a 2nd-hand Nikon D70, which would probably sell for less than RM2k.

It's an excellent camera - I have a D200 but I still use my old D70 for trips and assignments where portability is more important than resolution. The D70 has fantastic metering and produces photos with excellent tones, colours and resolution.

Although it's only 6 megapixels (just like the Nikon D40 and Pentax K100D), you can still make beautiful A3-sized prints from them.

Best of all, the D70 is still very fast by today's standards - with faster start-up times, image review speeds and autofocus speeds than some brand new DSLRs in the market.

The only significant problem with the D70 is its high-ISO noise - it produces more grain at ISO1600 than any other DSLR using the same Sony-made 6-megapixel CCD (including the Nikon D50, D40 and Pentax's 6-MP DSLRs ) because of its older and less sophisticated noise reduction techniques.

Another thing to watch out for are D70 bodies that have been used for photojournalism or other jobs which required excessive use - the shutter/reflex mirror mechanism and electronics on the D70 are not of professional standards, so they may be worn out and may fail (requiring a trip to Nikon's service centre, and possibly a month of waiting).

Oh, and one more thing - the LCD on the D70 is a mere 1.8 inches small (2.0 inches on the D70s), and doesn't provide enough resolution for you to check for camera shake.

So yes, there are risks in getting a 2nd-hand D70, but if you're willing to take the risk, it's an excellent camera.

[JackJack]

if budget really is a problem for u as a student but still wanna own a camera, i say get wat u can afford first, learn from the basic like composition, exposure, focusing and etc. And from there decide what u like to photograph most.

After you start to work only save for a dslr and a good lens that suit ur usage

[gtye0h]

noted,

and thx for the priority listing.

1. great pics
2. easy to carry around
3. fast AF, fast enough to capture tat moment
4. good low light performance
5. anti shake
6. ultra zom and underwater capabilities (add ons available)
7. lotsa features to explore and experiment

forget to mention tat i would love to try photgraphing near water environments but cant risk water getting into the camera.

If you want all this pictures you should look at a Nikon P-5000
its only 1.2k and it has VR
Functions are more or less like a SLR
best of all it has a hot shoe for flash recommended a sb400
this is a must if you are shooting indoors

[themagnificentman]

I saw a D70 at lelong for some RM1.7k body only..

DSLR is still out of budget..sigh..

i do like the sound of jack's advice..

apparently from dpreviews, the P5000 suffers from sluggish performance n slow AF..which is the thing i dread..

[wasabi]

1.7k is just a starter pack. u haven't think of adding a basic kit, advance kit, pro kit. kekekkek

[orionmystery]

I think you should just wait and save up enough money to go for a dslr. Why? Because with your enthusiasm, I am afraid you'll grow out of a prosumer cam in no time, and will be wanting a dslr in a couple of months.

[themagnificentman]

lolz

well i do plan on getting a DSLR but not anytime soon,

I believe even if I get a prosumer now, and later a DSLR, I can always grab my prosumer for short events..sorta like backup..

[ykgen]

canon 350D kit set is just about RM2400

[Grant S.]

I believe even if I get a prosumer now, and later a DSLR, I can always grab my prosumer for short events..sorta like backup..

Very rarely happens. Once you've used a DSLR the limitations of *any* prosumer will just frustrate you into putting it back in the closet, or if you are like me, selling it!:D

[Charles]

if you can afford a FZ50, you are better off buying a entry lvl DSLR.

[ykgen]

how much is fz50?

[themagnificentman]

hmmmm..
well of course if i can afford FZ50, i would have chose D40 instead, FZ50 is around RM1.7k..add another RM200+ can get D40..

really DSLR so flexible and so amazing that I would rather ditch the compact size of prosumer?

....

[ShaolinTiger]

Well after using SLR for sometime, I really can't stand the picture quality compact or PnS produces, I like to blow pictures up and I'm anal about sharpness and noise..

If you aren't too fussy about picture quality then a PnS or high end superzoom/bridge camera is much more convenient.

The only one that produces near SLR quality because it has an SLR sized (APS) sensor is the Sony R1 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscr1/), but then it's as expensive as an SLR.

If you take pictures only in bright conditions and are into macro and landscape mostly something like the FZ-50 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz50/) is just great.

But if you want more flexibility and think you are going to take photography further you should consider an SLR.

At the end of the day it really comes down to your requirements and preferences, there is no super solution that wins on every front.

I think the D40 is about the best of both worlds as you can get, with small body and very high picture quality, you just lose out on the 10-12x zoom and image stabiliser of super-zoom/bridge cameras and support for lightweight prime lenses.

[themagnificentman]

pic quality is important to me because I have always tried to achieve the quality of those tat is really smooth and sharp (magazines, etc) on a compact but all i get is blurry, noise( closed room, and lack of light) and lack of detail..

I will mostly use it for potraits, people, events tat sort..

theres a used sony R1 at RM1k..2yrs old de..

is it a good buy?not sure bout the shutter count tho..

but it sure looks magnificent..

[ShaolinTiger]

Well you can check out the pics from our own forumer tylim, he's using the Sony R1.

Some examples here:

http://www.shutterasia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1100

http://www.shutterasia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1088

[themagnificentman]

wa

this is like something I desire to produce..

but its already 2yrs old..worth to buy it?

[Chrischong]

I saw a D70 at lelong for some RM1.7k body only..

DSLR is still out of budget..sigh..




Howabout going further back in time and look for a 2nd-hand Nikon D100?

They used to cost RM6k or more brand new, but nowadays they probably cost less than a D70. It came out 2-years before the D70 but uses the same 6-megapixel Sony CCD (which in turn, is the same one you'd find in the D40).

Although it's a bit slower and has a smaller feature set than the D70, the D100 is an excellent camera in its own right. It's got the same CAM900 autofocus system and a couple of nice touches like a switch to choose between Manual, Single- and Continuous autofocus.

It's got a slightly different user interface - some say it's clunkier to use than a D70, though I say it's probably easier for beginners to understand - more knobs and dials, fewer shared function buttons.

Plus, the D100 has a better viewfinder - brighter and with a little more magnification.

The D100 uses an older 3D Matrix Metering system, though I have no complaints about its exposure when I tested one a few years ago. I tried one in the Singapore Zoo some time ago and I'm pleased with the camera's results.

I've got no idea where to find a D100 these days, but if you can find one for less than RM1000, grab it! Same cautions about buying a 2nd-hand D70 apply, though.

[ShutterClicker]

Hi there i am an owner of S3 IS and really i don't regret is as an initial purchase knowing it's a great backup when I get my pentax K100d super or a nikon d50 .

If you are into low light shooting , high zoom- 420mm and just learning photos.
then S3IS is for you don't bother with S5Is unless u wanted to get the flash .

Should you crave for good shots all the time ...and low budget ..really get the Pentax K100D super with dust removal and support for Supersonic lenses..
It's the only DSLR in this range that have Shock Reduction aka IS ...and though lens choices are limited....but you can travel around ebay or Cash convertor to find old K mount Pentax Lenses . but it's worth it in the long run ...

with your budget now most likely u will run with kit lens which in my opinion have the best build quality ...

If you have a low budget and just trying out do get the prosumer ..never spend more than 1500 for prosumer...cause if that' the case K100D is for you ..dont ever think about D40 ...as the lens choices for budget wise is even lesser than pentax..At least pentax have compatibility with all their old lenses...which Nikon d40 does have but lacks AF

[themagnificentman]

gosh people,

I did some research and D40's low light imaging is awesome..even at some ISO 800, hardly can see any detail loss or noise.

ISO 800 D40 = ISO 200 Canon S3 IS

anyway, I was offered RM1300 for a new canon S3 IS.good deal?

cheers

[aichiban]

im using D80 and when my sis wanna purchase a D40, I advised her to get a prosumer instead.

the price difference is not much, but the future investments involved doesnt really suit her, yet. the lenses involved n all.
i could've share my lenses with her but not many of my lenses are AF-S.

dont think only about the initial $$ u pour in. Poison will start creeping in XD

[Crazymalaysian]

Curious, which prosumer did you suggest she buy? As a prosumer user myself, pardon me if i'm so bold to say that you made a mistake in doing so. :P

After all, the kit lens might be good enough for her.

[aichiban]

i suggested - any that ngam feel :p
kit lense dont have the zoom she need

[ckchowov]

Just wondering what camera has been purchased by themagnificentman...

[themagnificentman]

hey sorry guys..

I bought my Canon S3 IS for some RM1300..and my newly purchased lowepro bag..my camera arrived one day before i'm about to leave for singapore..so haven been updating my post..

well for starters, the camera is real fast..compare to compacts, really no match..snap.snap snap..pic quality is sharp..once again compact no match..was really satisfied with my canon..tho kinda heavy compare to compacts..n bulkier..tats the cons..other than that, not much qualms..

but heck, i got a taste of a 350D, and i was like...did i just took a snap?wow..superb quick..even at ISO800 or 1600, seriously no feeling compare to mine..the lens was tamron 200mm..but its real heavy...big bulky..

enough said, dslr is really superb...abit poisoned..but put off by hefty tag...

[joelchu]

hey sorry guys..

I bought my Canon S3 IS for some RM1300..and my newly purchased lowepro bag..my camera arrived one day before i'm about to leave for singapore..so haven been updating my post..

well for starters, the camera is real fast..compare to compacts, really no match..snap.snap snap..pic quality is sharp..once again compact no match..was really satisfied with my canon..tho kinda heavy compare to compacts..n bulkier..tats the cons..other than that, not much qualms..

but heck, i got a taste of a 350D, and i was like...did i just took a snap?wow..superb quick..even at ISO800 or 1600, seriously no feeling compare to mine..the lens was tamron 200mm..but its real heavy...big bulky..

enough said, dslr is really superb...abit poisoned..but put off by hefty tag...

just wait till you start working... HEHEHE.... *mostly you'll keep that Prosumer in a nice place hahaha

[Wutang Crane]

Go to YL Camera, Pudu Plaza 1st Floor, look for Desmond. He'll (poison) help you. If I'm not mistaken, i saw a D40 kit (used) for Rm 1300 and a Olympus E310 dual lens kit for RM 2750.

Crane

[iwhizz]

a year b4, im using prosumer fuji s9600, a very good camera since fuji were using super CCD sensor which was very good in a low light condition. together wit 9mp it was a very good package for those who are in new in photograph

im already upgrade to DSLR ( k100Ds ) which is i have found superb in image quality even it only on 6mp ( better than my fujis). In my opinion, go for DSLR straightaway, but some prosumer cameras are also good especially for this model : FUJI- s9600,sony DHSC Hx, n CANON S5 IS. :adore::adore::adore::adore:

[Satindolls]

any opinions on the canon S3 IS?

Personal advice: AVOID usage of ISO's beyond 400 at every single cost and situation if you are gonna end up with those kind of P&S'es - my personal recommendation for a good prosumer/bridge would currently be a Pana FZ18 (nominal retail is RM1599, but do make a thorough search on your own tho' - just my personal 2 sen as I myself am gonna track down a DSLR soon, whilst in a longer run thinking whether or not to get a RELIABLE prosumer to be my backup camera, or get something like a Tamron telephoto lens)

[ckchowov]

I still keeping Canon Powershot S2IS and Panasonic Lumix FZ50 after purchase the Sony A350. The FZ50 + DCR250 is very powerfull macro combo; while the S2IS is compact and light enough and my wife love it !

[dnl8868]

I was in same dilemma as you last Sept 2007.:(
was contemplating to get S5IS or Canon 350D or Nikon D40 :?

> then i decided to go serious into photography and get Nikon D40 - bcoz it's cheaper than 350D :)
> only to be convinced by the shop that 350D is the better camera with more freebies :P

> so, i took 350D home and never look back!
> 6 month after I am a proud owner of 350D (now use as back-up) & Canon 40D!! :bouncing:

> if portability/ mobility is serious issue to you, then dslr will be a no no
> but I'm telling you now, you'll regret when you compare the IQ results :D

[Satindolls]

> so, i took 350D home and never look back!
> 6 month after I am a proud owner of 350D (now use as back-up) & Canon 40D!! :bouncing:
:D

You see - !!! Million cheerz for you indeed!!! :cool::party1::flower::chillin: