What do you think of the new proton?

[ShaolinTiger]

The saga replacement? I've seen ads on the TV and in the newspapers already.

4334

It's something like a Gen-2 sedan, but it might be called something completley different.

The prices are already out on the booking page (https://proton-edar.com.my/onlinebooking/index.php?page=booking&car=25), it's higher than expected as it's supposed to be a budget/saga replacement.

Proton New Sedan 1.6 HL (M) AT - RM 55,800.00
Proton New Sedan 1.6 ML (M) AT - RM 52,800.00
Proton New Sedan 1.6 ML (M) MT - RM 49,800.00
Proton New Sedan 1.6 BL (M) AT - RM 48,800.00
Proton New Sedan 1.6 BL (M) MT - RM 45,800.00
Proton New Sedan 1.6 BL (S) AT - RM 48,350.00
Proton New Sedan 1.6 BL (S) MT - RM 45,350.00

[matcom]

Hi ST,
In my view, I can't make my mind about proton product line. Doesn't meant that I don't have patriotism in my heart, as Malaysia is my beloving country, always. But deep in my soul, frustrated with its products. Price - Quality Build - Safety Standard - Service.
Though I have some pics of the new car. See in http://paultan.org/topics/cars/malaysian-makes/proton/.
See it and believe it. :?

[moz]

With Proton cars, I don't get excited anymore - I really experienced and heard enough about the quality problems to not instantly jump with excitement. Even more current Gen.2's and Neo's have had their fair share of minor, but irritating quality issues that I think cars ought not to have. I have been let down enough in the past !

[raclette]

i just wish that proton wont vanish in nature one day..:(

[jayhan]

It always bewilders me and amuse me on how Malaysians in general complain about Proton cars. Didi-dada about this and that being not good, while at the same time, these same bunch of people will overlook the similar "defects" or quality issues with other makers' cars (ie. Koreans and even Japanese makes).

While I do not deny that there are, and will always be, issues pertaining quality and also what-so-ever on Proton products (hey its a product! any products in the world also got issue la...), this lead me to think that the inferiority complex in our people's metality rather than the product itself.

By the way, this is not the SAGA Replacement. :)

This is the sedan version of a Gen.2, and for the naming convention - my mouth is zipped. :P

[noruazumi]

agree with Jay tho'.
when people see Proton car breakdown on the side of the road people will say "Proton maaah!".
but when Toyota or Honda breakdown, no one say anything.
but again, i can't deny the fact that Proton QC a bit loose tho'.

and this is Gen-2 Sedan version.
i know that there'll be Waja replacement model coming out....

[ykgen]

wow.. looks like a lan evo..

[Alan]

I once heard the ex-CEO of Proton speak when he was still heading Proton. Before listening to him, I was under the impression that the management have their heads buried in desert and are not in touch with issues concerning quality and realibility of their cars.

I was totally wrong. Not only was he in tune with the problems affecting Proton, he had no qualms criticising himself and his cars. So, why is he not doing anything about it? I tend to believe that he wanted to do something but the people supporting him is the main hinderance and politics played into it. Business and politics make a bad mix and his subsequent dismissal backs this.

Sorry for the ranting and OT. Back to the new Proton.

I think the new Gen2 sedan (or should be call it Gen3?) is nothing more than a Gen2 with a boot. The most I could expect is a revised interior (a glovebox pleeeease) plus the introduction of variable valve technology (finally!). It should be fairly decent car but will face a stiff time competing with Myvi. Unfortunately, Myvi has captured the market and this is a car that should have been launched a couple of years ago.

[ted]

I thoroughly agrees with jayhan.

[LoctorMayat]

It's quite a nice car...

but..


overpriced

[nivek]

It's quite a nice car...

but..


overpriced

Agree with Loctor.

[sinister]

Hi ST,
In my view, I can't make my mind about proton product line. Doesn't meant that I don't have patriotism in my heart, as Malaysia is my beloving country, always. But deep in my soul, frustrated with its products. Price - Quality Build - Safety Standard - Service.
Though I have some pics of the new car. See in http://paultan.org/topics/cars/malaysian-makes/proton/.
See it and believe it. :?

matcom, d picture ur posted is not d one gonna be launch soon... d one launch is d gen2 sedan, d pic u posted is d one will replacing d iswara/saga

[Chrischong]

I sort of half disagree with Jay.

While it's true that some Korean and Japanese makes have pretty shoddy build quality too, Proton takes the cake for being consistently shoddy throughout its range with seemingly no capacity to create an expensive feeling car.

The dashboards and interiors of all the current Malaysian-designed Protons feel much cheaper than the Mitsubishi-sourced ones of yesteryear.

At least the dashboards of the cheapest Korean and Jap cars still have some semblance of quality - the Protons feel like they were made with the cheapest-grade plastics hastily moulded and cobbled together.

I don't believe it's an inferiority complex thing - just look at the Myvi (or any other Perodua, for that matter) and see how much better it's put together.

In fact, the only car's I've come across that are worse than Protons are the Chinese-designed Cherrys. Now THAT's nasty.

But here's the thing - most of my complaints about Protons are about their interiors. For all I know, the running gear on a Proton might actually be bullet proof.

Athough Protons feel a lot cheaper than most other makes, they are still fairly good when it comes to reliability (as long as power windows aren't one of your reliability metrics).

The problem is, you spend most of your time sitting in your car rather than looking at it from the outside - once Proton improves the quality of its interiors, public perception is bound to improve too.

And unlike most other cheap cars, Protons actually handle rather well - I love the way a Gen-2 handles when you chuck it through corners.

[LoctorMayat]

Yup..

handling is damn stim.... like riding roller coaster..

but not as stim as that Skoda I tried the other day... OWOOOWOOWOWOWOOW

[The Dark]

Oh, I thought its the long-awaited Perdana replacement model;). Anyway I just hope Proton people have learned how to read the local market demands and don't come out with marketing 'flops' again. For me, Im still praying that proton will resurrect the GTI lineage inthe future. Care for a Satria Neo GTI anybody?:P

[LoctorMayat]

nope. Not me.

A plate of Char Koay Teow anytime for me

[waynem]

I think the guys defending proton are doing it out of some misguided national pride.

The company is poorly run and with out government support would fail.
Nepotism rules every thing.

As for the cars I think numbers on the quality control side speak for themselves, the average foreign car comes off the production line with 5-6 faults, the average proton has 20+. So a proton is mathematical 4 times worse then any other car.

[ckchowov]

Hope this new model doesn't end up like Savvy...

[calvaryzone]

i received the proton saga merdeka special for rm 27k last week and loving it.
it is a great car for a really cheap price, which has power steering, door visor, CD player, reverse sensors, etc...

while it is a good car, i can't say much about the sales and QC of proton. during the purchase, the car's delivery was delayed a few times. my father went and nagged them a few times already.
and when i got the car, check check, drove it home only to discover that the engine oil is leaking, and almost empty. luckily i reached home, else the car would go up in flames. :run_away:

my father complained to the sales manager who got a tow truck to tow the car back to proton and fix it. the car was returned the next day, together with a rm150 ozone tint voucher and free 5k service for the supplies.

all in all, was happy that everything is ok now (and some freebies) but abit disappointed that the oil seal on the car can leak even before giving away the car to customer. never QC one meh? :P

[nivek]

i received the proton saga merdeka special for rm 27k last week and loving it.
it is a great car for a really cheap price, which has power steering, door visor, CD player, reverse sensors, etc...

while it is a good car, i can't say much about the sales and QC of proton. during the purchase, the car's delivery was delayed a few times. my father went and nagged them a few times already.
and when i got the car, check check, drove it home only to discover that the engine oil is leaking, and almost empty. luckily i reached home, else the car would go up in flames. :run_away:

my father complained to the sales manager who got a tow truck to tow the car back to proton and fix it. the car was returned the next day, together with a rm150 ozone tint voucher and free 5k service for the supplies.

all in all, was happy that everything is ok now (and some freebies) but abit disappointed that the oil seal on the car can leak even before giving away the car to customer. never QC one meh? :P


My friend used to say, if you have received / owned a trouble free Proton, then you have got ripped off and the salesman had sold you a fake Proton. :D

[moz]

While I was driving a proton sometime back, I thought I had a decent car, and I thought the faults it had were minor and were common to all cars, and thought all the people who had bad things to say about Proton were just plain nasty or simply being picky. :?

Then I switched to a Japanese car. Now I know how cars should be. And this is just the entry level Japanese car model ... nothing fancy ... nothing luxurious ...

Without proton around, all of us would be able to enjoy cars that are proper. Maybe then we'll all complain about entry level Japanese cars ... :mad:

[derickuan]

I can't believe after all the image dent they got regarding their rapport and quality.....they still play the the "Ooooooh....mysterious" card game like putting the picture of the car in the dark and expect people to book it just like that. Hahaha.....I'm not surprise either people will fall for it....as usual.

[asyraflee]

if only cars are affordable, even the national makes.

[iamyuanwu]

I thought it was a Volvo advertisement.....
Especially with the caption below the car.

Plagiarist! :P

[jayhan]

I sort of half disagree with Jay.

While it's true that some Korean and Japanese makes have pretty shoddy build quality too, Proton takes the cake for being consistently shoddy throughout its range with seemingly no capacity to create an expensive feeling car.

Proton do have the capacity and ability to create an expensive feeling car. Trust me on this. The question is, which segment of the market do they need to put such products into when most of average Malaysian wage earners' take home pay is no more than RM3k? With luxury feel comes cost, and higher cost translates to a direct channel to the consumer. If there is any difference between Proton and the Eastern courterparts; I'd have to say its in the volumes. Proton's volumes just isnt that big, and lets face it... 20 years in automotive is NO BIG DEAL la...

The dashboards and interiors of all the current Malaysian-designed Protons feel much cheaper than the Mitsubishi-sourced ones of yesteryear.

At least the dashboards of the cheapest Korean and Jap cars still have some semblance of quality - the Protons feel like they were made with the cheapest-grade plastics hastily moulded and cobbled together.

Again, the mass numbers of cars they sell and Proton sells is totally on a different scale. And mass numbers means they can produce better "feel" material at cheaper cost, when proton cant. And thanks to our half past six gov, the tax on Proton doesnt help either.

I don't believe it's an inferiority complex thing - just look at the Myvi (or any other Perodua, for that matter) and see how much better it's put together.

In fact, the only car's I've come across that are worse than Protons are the Chinese-designed Cherrys. Now THAT's nasty.
If you are talking about material quality (in comparing Myvi and Proton, say Gen2) - then I cant agree on this. The right way to compare the dashboard for an instance, is not to "rub" the surface. Its to knock on it and listen to the sound (this is the layman's method of course). Do this and you will realize they are both plastics, and I can assure you they are both the same grade plastics. Also bear in mind Produa products are in no way (automotive speaking) original. They are either toyota clones, or daihatsu clones. So until today I still dont regard them as our National Car Manufacturer. They are an assembler which rebadge foreign makes. And bear in mind, by rebadging, they (the Malaysians in there) dont own as much as technical know-how as Proton do.

Lets put the plagiarized cherries aside. These are nothing but metal boxes made with no know-how at all.

The problem is, you spend most of your time sitting in your car rather than looking at it from the outside - once Proton improves the quality of its interiors, public perception is bound to improve too.
Agreed on this totally.

[asyraflee]

Does anyone here knows how much is a rough figure to fit two airbags in a car? :redface:

[Alan]

The dashboards and interiors of all the current Malaysian-designed Protons feel much cheaper than the Mitsubishi-sourced ones of yesteryear.

At least the dashboards of the cheapest Korean and Jap cars still have some semblance of quality - the Protons feel like they were made with the cheapest-grade plastics hastily moulded and cobbled together.

Chris, what is your opinion of the quality of the dashboards of Volvos? Feelings nice, classy and good quality to me but many models of Volvos are infamous for 'melting' rubber/plastic and one in particular has almost for certain, a dashboard that would become loose after a few years. Yet, 'Bloody Volvo Drivers' loves the cars as they are.

You need to look at the merits of each car as a whole. As a whole, I feel that the recent models like Savy and Neo have some improvements since.

The problem with Proton is that it is not rolling out new models fast enough to continue to entice the market and give the perception that it is on track to improve quality. Worst still, it is still producting a car designed in late 70s/early 80s and the image of poor quality continues to stick. How are they going to stop the negative market perception if these same models with quality problems continue to come out of the production line? They should stop producing bug ridden old models and bury their poor image. :mad:

Back to the new car... I am keeping my fingers crossed that the variable valve Campro sooo talked about finally rolls out.

[jayhan]

Does anyone here knows how much is a rough figure to fit two airbags in a car? :redface:

I think it goes in the thousands if you are talking about aftermarket.
Then again, where do you wanna fit it? Airbags are a no-joke item bro... fitted wrongly, not only it wont save lifes, but will add injury too. To be honest, dont install after market airbags - but buy the car WITH AIRBAGS.

Why you may ask. Answer is simple. When we design the airbags and the container, and also the splitting lines, and also the lead splitting line, and also sensor, and also the timing its gonna get blown, and also its relation to the chasis' crash cans, and also the seat belt pre-tensioner relations, and also the... (now you see the so many "and also"?)... many variables have to be taken into account to design an airbag safety feature. Then it will have to go thru a series of virtual crash test to simulate the results and precision is looked into, down to the mili-seconds. Anything too much will not save you, andthing too less will kill you.

Thats how crucial an airbag unit is.

Back to the new car... I am keeping my fingers crossed that the variable valve Campro sooo talked about finally rolls out.

Totally agree with you on that note Alan.
The reason why Proton cant afford to roll out so many models at any one product lifecycle time is the fact that our market is just not big enough to make a feasible business case. Proton needs more time to be honest. Time to penetrate 3rd world countries' market. Indonesia, Vietnam, Africa etc etc. With volume, we will get better cars are cheaper price. Any car project cost loads of money... and I do mean LOADDSSSSS!

Variable Valve Campro rolling out? Not yet mate ;) Soon... but not yet.

[asyraflee]

Thanks Jay for the info :)

Nah, was just wondering whether is it "very expensive" for Proton to fit airbags as standard to all their cars.

[jayhan]

asyraflee,

you see, the thing with Malaysia's automotive system is that we lack proper system and legislation. and air bag is a good example. the cars here are not required to be fitted with such safety devices to be road legal.

from a manufaturer's point of view, its not that "expensive" to fit air bags... but is it feasible to fit it and make a profit out of it, which translates to increase overall price both on BOM and also the car's OTR price thus equating to losing the competitive edge of being economical? the balance has to be there. Thats why Proton has the so many variants, from low line to high line and now the newly coined term, premium line. Its sad but true that such is the scenario that such safety systems are deemed as a luxury rather than a must have... but hey, its only business - nothing personal ;)

until our market (and i mean the mass public statistically) is ready to fork out easily/comfortably RM60-70k for a car like VIOS... we just have to bear whats thrown at us. again, sad but true.

[LoctorMayat]

wah... Jayhan banyak pandai

[andretong]

I believe that the number of VIOS and CITY sold in malaysia any time out number the car sold by proton, for their gen2 and savvy add up together.
Hence, the demand is there actually. Just that proton despite being in this business more than 20 years, still don't really know what our local people want.
All their latest entry, like Gen2, savvy and Neo... is not really what our market want. Both Savvy and Neo is 2 doors car, and Gen2 although is a four door car, but to me it is really like a bloody 2 door car. backseat really not enough space, and headroom also not enough. Market demand for 2 doors car is really really small.
What they should produce a sedan to replace wira and waja. wira have been in the market like what... more than 10years ?? and waja design... also look more like 10years ago kind of car.

I just hope their latest car will be much better in term of design and quality.

[jayhan]

I believe that the number of VIOS and CITY sold in malaysia any time out number the car sold by proton, for their gen2 and savvy add up together.
Hence, the demand is there actually. Just that proton despite being in this business more than 20 years, still don't really know what our local people want..
If you look at market at big cities like KL, JB and Penang then yes, your statement might apply. But if you look at Malaysia as a whole then, I'm sorry to say I cant agree with you on this cuz statistically you are wrong. Look at our country's average per capita income and you will know that not many average joe who walks the street can afford a VIOS or CITY. If I were to bitch about Proton, I'd have to say that they should kick POLITICS out of BUSINESS. These 2 dont mix very well. The peeps at Proton know what the people want - but their decisions are consistantly overuled by previous top people. Hopefully it would be better ever since the change at the helm.

All their latest entry, like Gen2, savvy and Neo... is not really what our market want. Both Savvy and Neo is 2 doors car, and Gen2 although is a four door car, but to me it is really like a bloody 2 door car. backseat really not enough space, and headroom also not enough. Market demand for 2 doors car is really really small.
What they should produce a sedan to replace wira and waja. wira have been in the market like what... more than 10years ?? and waja design... also look more like 10years ago kind of car.

I just hope their latest car will be much better in term of design and quality.

Uhh...you might wanna look into this again. SAVVY is a 4 door economical car designated to replace the TIARA, not a 2 door. Then the NEO is a targeted niche market car, which in my opinion suits the business case done - regardless of what the mass market wants, cuz its target market is niche. Gen2 has been doing ok so far, not super great, but ok. If you do realize, the Gen2 is actually WIRA replacement... and pls look at page1 of this thread to see if its a sedan or 2 door again.

I dont know if you are really a 6 footer to be complaining about the headroom, but I myself is quite on the big side... and yes, I do agree with you on the lack of headroom. But if I were to bitch about headroom only... the list wont include just the Gen2, but also some FORD, some KIA, some HYUNDAI, and heck even the best seller KANCIL. This all comes back again to what I've been saying about the typical Malaysian mindset :P

The reason why I'm saying all these is not to defend Proton based on nationalistic mindset. But I'm working directly in this industry to know for certain what I've been blabbering about :P

[LoctorMayat]

Oh... Jayhan sells Juara ka? :D

[jayhan]

Oh... Jayhan sells Juara ka? :D

Haha I wish Im in the sales line my friend... then I can use my technical know-whut to con some money :P

I work with LOTUS laaaa... the curry house in Damansara Jaya. Muahahaha!!!

[Alan]

LM, Juara is NOT a Proton designed car. Mind you, it is essentially a Mit rebadged.

People like to criticise Proton designs and say so much about Japanese designs. What we sometimes don't realise is that Juara is a Japanese design. Look where it went in the market....

[LoctorMayat]

Alan.

Thanks for the useful info.

My preference for car design.. have to go to those crazy guys in UK... e.g. Jag, Lotus, etc

nyamm nyammm

[jayhan]

What about LOTUS Curry House Design in Malaysia?? Makan liao sure lao-sai, drive liao also sure lao-sai (due to too much adrenalin). LOL.

[andretong]

Just so happen that yesterday i had dinner with a few Ghana people, friends of a friend.
They came here to talk with Proton people, they are thinking of bringing in Proton's car into Ghana. :P

[LoctorMayat]

My 16 years old Potong Saga...

still can pick up Handphone Stall Ah Lian at shopping complexes... :D

[noruazumi]

regardless what have been discussed, the main question is "Are you going to spend RM50k on a Proton car?". ;)

[andretong]

My 16 years old Potong Saga...

still can pick up Handphone Stall Ah Lian at shopping complexes... :D

An uncle of mine told me that when he sent his son to KL for college, at that time he just bought an Iswara. After the son graduated went to UK for further study then came back to work, and finally earn enough to buy his own car. Which is also a Iswara. When park side by side, both car still look the same. :?
Time can change everything, but apparently not Proton's Iswara. :P

[derickuan]

LM, Juara is NOT a Proton designed car. Mind you, it is essentially a Mit rebadged.

People like to criticise Proton designs and say so much about Japanese designs. What we sometimes don't realise is that Juara is a Japanese design. Look where it went in the market....

From what i have read, yeah it's true that the Juara was a mit rebadge but in Japan, it was a success as smaller cars tend to be popular in Japan due to high fuel cost. Now the thing is Proton made a wrong decision when they brought in Juara and sell it here with the same expectation of the success in Japan. What they did not rigthfully predict is that the market in Malaysia is very much different to Japan and fuel price (that time, if not mistaken was still RM1.10/litre - 1.32/litre) is still much cheaper in Malaysia than in Japan. If i can remember well what i have read, Proton luckily did not bring in huge orders from Mit. They sort of brought in 5000 units but selling the 5000 units is also difficult liao. Correct me if i'm wrong. :)

[moz]

regardless what have been discussed, the main question is "Are you going to spend RM50k on a Proton car?". ;)

Truth is ... the entry level Civic in US is around RM50k (USD 15k). If you can get a Civic at that price in the US, why should our Protons be 50k ???? Honda Fits sells for around USD8k in China ... our car prices are artificially inflated ... no thanks to Proton, which is another reason I'm aggrieved by the local automobile industry !!! There is no real value add at all to Malaysians !!!

[Alan]

A mere mention of Proton will surely invite heated discussion and flames in ANY forum. I predict this thread will go ten pages before the launch of the new Proton! ;)

[jayhan]

Truth is ... the entry level Civic in US is around RM50k (USD 15k). If you can get a Civic at that price in the US, why should our Protons be 50k ???? Honda Fits sells for around USD8k in China ... our car prices are artificially inflated ... no thanks to Proton, which is another reason I'm aggrieved by the local automobile industry !!! There is no real value add at all to Malaysians !!!

Truth is... you live in a land where your income is being taxed, you pay road tax then still need to pay tol to use jammed up highways, cars (both local and foreign makes) are being horrendously taxed... etc etc whatever else taxes. Yes proton cars are being taxed as well by the gov - go look at the price breakdown in the showroom. So dont just merely point 1 finger at proton, make sure you point the other 4 fingers at the big G as well.

Proton has more technical capabilities (even owns them) that what you guys can imagine. Trust me on this. Value adding dont come into products as complicated as an automobile just with a flick of a finger... if we were to take down the tax structure on cars, then we would be comparing these :

Civic sedan : RM50k++
Gen.2 : RM35-39k
Camry RM65k++
So zumi, your question might need to be adjusted to "would one buy Gen2 if the price is like above said?" :)

So now you see where the other portion of the Gen2 price has gone to? Not proton's account book but to our big G. (Please dont give me the complex Khazanah is also Gov owned wut!?)

[moz]

Truth is... you live in a land where your income is being taxed, you pay road tax then still need to pay tol to use jammed up highways, cars (both local and foreign makes) are being horrendously taxed... etc etc whatever else taxes. Yes proton cars are being taxed as well by the gov - go look at the price breakdown in the showroom. So dont just merely point 1 finger at proton, make sure you point the other 4 fingers at the big G as well.

Proton has more technical capabilities (even owns them) that what you guys can imagine. Trust me on this. Value adding dont come into products as complicated as an automobile just with a flick of a finger... if we were to take down the tax structure on cars, then we would be comparing these :

Civic sedan : RM50k++
Gen.2 : RM35-39k
Camry RM65k++
So zumi, your question might need to be adjusted to "would one buy Gen2 if the price is like above said?" :)

So now you see where the other portion of the Gen2 price has gone to? Not proton's account book but to our big G. (Please dont give me the complex Khazanah is also Gov owned wut!?)

Hi jay ... getting heated here ... :P

I see the point that everything is taxed, including Proton. But remember the time when foreign cars were much cheaper and affordable? When there wasn't a lot of tax structure built in to protect Proton?

I know the $$$ is going to the big G. However, the big G is doing it 'to protect Proton'.

The end consumer like me doesn't know what Proton can or can't do. We really can only judge it based on what the end product is, the service we get when we need it and our experience with the product and the service. The rest doesn't matter, does it?

I respect your point of view mate. See if you can see my point of view. :rasta:

[jayhan]

i totally see the POV you guys are putting out, and I myself can truly understand that. bear in mind that even until today, I myself am pretty much just like you guys - in a state where neither can i really afford anything else than just a proton or produa.

true enough on the protection policy for proton does hamper our chances to buy other makes. but lets be honest here... dont you guys think proton has actually come a very long way? they have developed from being a rebadge maker to one company which can solely and independently design their own cars (with their acquisition of LOTUS of course). unlike P2 or worse still naza which just "chop" out cars like kuih kapit. To them, theres only 2 interest : 1. To make money 2. To make more money based on what the market needs and how to manipulate the non existing legislation (can someone tell me why Jeremy Clarkson never bash a proton as bad as how he did to the kelisa?? ;)). Proton on the other hand has more value... they own R&D patents, they own technical know-how which translates to local engineering capabilities via tech transfers, and they have amassed local vendors (ok i know many local vendors suck and how politics is being dragged into it).

Sometimes I just dont understand what are the locals whining so much about Proton and appraising foreign makes, when I myself work as an Automotive Design Engineer... and I've numerous of times done designs for Japanese Automakers' cars which are either at par with Proton's or even worse. Believe me - its real, after all... its business!

[nivek]

Need to ask one question :

Why are the export Protons (to Australia and UK for example) better built as compared to the ones here? Forget about costing and taxes and just look at the built quality.

[andretong]

can someone tell me why Jeremy Clarkson never bash a proton as bad as how he did to the kelisa?? ;)

I think you missed it.
I can't remember is it Savvy or Gen2.... another guy was about to talk about it, and the car just appear on the LCD screen in between them, Jeremy just shut the LCD and said don't bother or waste time talk about this car and moved on to another subject. :P

[jayhan]

Need to ask one question :

Why are the export Protons (to Australia and UK for example) better built as compared to the ones here? Forget about costing and taxes and just look at the built quality.
Ahhh... the eternal assumption by the mass public based on - nothing but simple rumors. do you guys really think, logically, that as a business which would wanna emphasize on mass production cars, it is feasible and profitable to make 2 batch of cars (of the same model) of different material to obtain different quality?? of course no la.... make losses got la!

yes i'd agree on the differences if your definition of quality is based on the HOT AIR COND, AIRBAGS, EBD and some other nifty gadgets. Again, like I said, export models are destined for countries which has standing legislations for automobiles to be road worthy. But if you are assuming (an example) that Msian Proton cars are Milo-Tin and the same model for UK/Australia market is made of high grade steel - then I can tell u that such assumption is wrong. Any sane manufacturer will use only 1 grade of steel for any 1 model of car.... heck if they can use the same one for all their models, they would as well! Save cost mah! And this goes the same for plastic panels and carpet and seats inside the car laaa...

I think you missed it.
I can't remember is it Savvy or Gen2.... another guy was about to talk about it, and the car just appear on the LCD screen in between them, Jeremy just shut the LCD and said don't bother or waste time talk about this car and moved on to another subject. :P
Depends on how you see it andre... for me, at least its not bashed by a sledgehammer, raped by a heavy loader, and blown up by dynamites. :)
Imagine how degrading it would have been to have your product treated like this...

The argument now is not weather Proton is bad or Produa is worse. The message which Ive wanted to send out is this : Are we generally overlooking at other brands' negative aspects just because they are of foreign makes?

Dont believe me? I once read in PAULTAN a bashing on Savvy, claiming the glove compartment (when opened) has got this big-@ss gap which reveals the "intestine" behind the IP (instrument panel). Fine. Then I was in my cousin's car, a Hyundai Accent... and I accidentally noticed this big @ss gap as well... which reveal the same kinda stuff (wiring etc etc). But why no one is saying crap about it?? And if it's a minor issue, why peeps make a fuss about it on a Savvy, which is like 3/4 the price of an Accent?? Think about it...

[nivek]

Ahhh... the eternal assumption by the mass public based on - nothing but simple rumors. do you guys really think, logically, that as a business which would wanna emphasize on mass production cars, it is feasible and profitable to make 2 batch of cars (of the same model) of different material to obtain different quality?? of course no la.... make losses got la!
...


ohhh...roger that :)

[leslie]

hmm a lot of ex Proton owners from the days of Wira, Iswara, Saga are either Vios, City or Kia owners now hahaha. :P:P

Oklar dont bash Proton up so much lar....this industry still employs more than 8,000 + workers directly , jay correct me if i am wrong and indrectly supports close to 100,000 other ppl in various sectors from sub component manufacturing, distribution, servicing right down to banking and finance.

if i'm the Govt my direct concern would be the livelihood and survivability of those 105,000 ppl and the thousand plus company's involved in the business. A lot of those indrect company's as mentioned above are also servicing other car makes like Toyota, Honda, Kia, Naza, etc etc etc. Well they also will place the shareholders and owners in priority as well, of course Khazanah owns a majority of Proton. But there are over 100,000 other ppl who are more important. And being in a country where the election is very near, and economics plays a very large part in the decisive factor in choosing who runs our country.

IF something drastic happens in this industry, the 100,000+ ppl or more..would be adversely affected. especially if tonnes of cheap import parts and assembly parts starts rushing into Malaysia thus making the above company's losing out to the competitive egde which Proton/Msian govt has been giving out to them for the past 20 years.

The govt taxes each car buyer heavily why they need the $$ for development...otherwise where would they get the $$ to prop up the economy.. Govt spending equates economic growth..if this doesnt happen...we will be out of jobs.
Trust me it's not easy working in Ministry of Finance....or the EPU - Economic Planning Unit

Malaysia still needs lots of $$ to develop, we are not like Europe or USA where they have other avenues of revenue collection. Their Income tax rates are crazy !!!...Thank your lucky stars you are not working in US..You have to pay State Tax and Federal Tax together.

We still have not implemented the GST yet...but it will come soon..that's one way to collect revenue...and once GST kicks in, other area's of taxation would eventually come down. The signs are there..
Look at the Real Property Gains tax, last time if you would have bought your 2nd home and sold it within a specific time frame you Would be Tax...Now it is abolished....Why cause the govt has other plans in mind on revenue collection.
Govt here is looking closely on Singapore's GST system....why hehehe...cause one day we all will pay 5%...is just a matter of when only. But other areas of tax would be scaled down to compensate for the equilibrium in balancing the collection of other taxes from other avenues.


I'm no Govt supporter or anything but i have been indirectly involved in that industry for 2 years before. These ppl are just like you and me...and their livelihood is at stake if something serious happens to the automobile industry in Malaysia.

This same situation is happening in America, many jobs are lost out due to American companies moving to China and other countries.

For each car that you buy you are indirectly providing jobs and income for several thousand people in the market. Jobs which provide $$ for a family and yours if you happen to be in this industry.It goes the same if its a Proton , Toyota, Honda or Naza .....The multiplier effect is tremendous if you look at the bigger picture.

No car is perfect even a BMW or Benz....If you have owned a BMW now and used to drive one 17 years ago, tell me what's the difference besides the price...Quality is not as consistent like it was on a BMW in 1990 or earlier.

For example the Toyota Vios....it's so basic, the stuff they use are all mass made from a single assembly line.Gone are the days where cars have metal steel bumpers like the Nissan Sunny or Toyota Corolla. Now cars have plastic foams in front :P

Forget abt all the conspiracy, favouritism, etc etc all the issues which comes out like a giant wave in the media and in coffeeshop talk. 105,000 ppl or more are still dependent on car buyers to give them a decent life.

As for me you might probably wonder if i would buy a Proton cause after all the rambling above. Well it depends on the market itself :D

[matcom]

Well most of Jayhan's fact is true. Its true Proton has expertise, r&d and so on. And big daddy who set the rule. I think most of us put some comments here mostly because they love Malaysia and Proton as the only one malaysian car??? Still, we want to see some positive changes in Proton. The most is QC. Thats why some rejection shown by Malaysian. Some consumers have choose other cars like Perodua, Toyota, Honda etc. Why? The answer is simple.Trusted end products and QC. Good relationship with customers. Example are Nissan & Toyota, they show their care, though just a birthday card or a simple brochure for their release cars. My mother bought a Sentra in 1996. Until now she still gets brochures from Nissan every time it released a new product, though she never buy after that. But my sister was. That is a good marketing plan.
Proton is taking charge now. Our views have been taken in consideration in a few aspects such now ProtonCare if I'm not mistaken. Proton should shows positive changes that have been taken to fulfil our Malaysian drivers need. Or it will be a bad repo for eyes of Malaysian for a long time.

[leslie]

When one faces competition in the open market and with no direct or indirect support from *whatever's up there* one does the only thing feasible.

To survive and in order to survive, one must win each customers vote and of course sales. In order to survive one must really learn the true way of survival which is to compete ;)

[duke916]

I thought it was a Volvo advertisement.....
Especially with the caption below the car.

Plagiarist! :P

Please.. don't insult a Volvo Owner :rasta::rasta::rasta:

With Proton, you buy the Air-Cond and the car comes with it......


Dont believe me? I once read in PAULTAN a bashing on Savvy, claiming the glove compartment (when opened) has got this big-@ss gap which reveals the "intestine" behind the IP (instrument panel). Fine. Then I was in my cousin's car, a Hyundai Accent... and I accidentally noticed this big @ss gap as well... which reveal the same kinda stuff (wiring etc etc). But why no one is saying crap about it?? And if it's a minor issue, why peeps make a fuss about it on a Savvy, which is like 3/4 the price of an Accent?? Think about it...

But that's a Hyundai......

I once saw this poster comparing a Honda Civic and a Proton Saga/Iswara/What ever Hari RayaMerdeka Sports edition.

There are two parts in this poster, the top part, showing the evolution of a Honda Civic, the lower part, That thing....

The Honda shows the imrpovement, changes in shape, technology generation by generation, till the 5th or 6th Generation.

The lower section of the poster shows the evolution of the Proton, except the color and a few rocket launching body kit........, It's still the same old same old.

It's the Relek lah Brother that associated with this company ( And I know they suck 28cents from a dollar I earn to keep this piece of you know what afloat)

Some said they know exactly about the quality issues, well talk is cheap...

*Please edit your previous post if you wish to add more - Thanks!*

[jayhan]

duke,
no matter what make it is, like what leslie said, no car is perfect. it is an evolving piece of technology. and such technology dont come cheap. this many people have to understand. in a very generalized scope, comparing proton to honda is like comparing Malaysia with Japan.

put it this way, proton's existance in the automotive sector is considered at an infant stage (i sense bashing coming in). yes, 20years in this field is peanuts... most major players have been in there waaay longer, and on the scale, proton has amassed more (technologically, although most if not all of it are not implented into their cars) than its competitors given the same period of time.

i can tell u what differentiates between proton and these giants (ie. toyota, vw & honda). They have huge amount of reserves. Proton dont. And dont even think that Proton's previous reserves (in the billion of RM if im not mistaken) is a huge amount... TOYOTA's money is more than enough to sink a country's economy like Malaysia. Thats how much they have.

How does this relate to car production? simple. At the current state of technology and IT infrastructure (CAD, CAE and manufacturing), every car project will need to take at least 30months to complete, and approximately $US200 mil. (ill get back on more precise figures if needed). So, parallel projects are almost impossible to be carried out, well maybe for Proton's state, they can do that at about 2-3 parallel projects. And running a company like proton is not just purely about making cars... there's R&D cost to be consider, etc etc. So, take a step back in time for say 10 yrs ago when Wira/Saga rules the road, these figures would have to go to about 48months and double the $$ - maybe even more and slower if Proton had not buy LOTUS.

Given some space of time, AND a proper management team without interferance of any political misfits, I personally feel Proton can go further more in improvement of their products, to be able to provide our people with better cars and also jobs.

I've more info, but most of it cant be revealed. Wish I could share more with you guys.

[duke916]

duke,
Given some space of time, AND a proper management team without interferance of any political misfits, I personally feel Proton can go further more in improvement of their products, to be able to provide our people with better cars and also jobs.

I've more info, but most of it cant be revealed. Wish I could share more with you guys.

Well said, especially the WITHOUT interherence of any political misfits. I am not bashing Proton, it's the fact. And whatever they said they will do, has yet to be seen. Nobody get paid for giving reasons, everybody get paid to deliver the results.

And what ever reserves Proton amassed is by virture of forcing poor chaps on the street to buy their car- They don't earn it, they rob it.....

[jayhan]

lol. i wont go to the extend of saying they rob it. how can you say they are forcing people to buy Proton cars anyway? just because the Gov impose heavy taxes on foreign cars? hey after all, we've got choices not to buy proton - theres always the el-cheapo perodua kancil :P or taking the lame-@ss public transport.

to my views, its only business, nothing personal. even though i'm most likely in the same shoe as you are in, which so are many others in this forum.

the real robbers are the ones who tax us on road usage and yet still collect tol on our roads and providing us traffic jammed conditions. the real robbers are those who tax both u and me and other malaysians and provide us with crappy and unreliable public transportation. now thats what i call "robbers".

[duke916]

lol. i wont go to the extend of saying they rob it. how can you say they are forcing people to buy Proton cars anyway? just because the Gov impose heavy taxes on foreign cars? hey after all, we've got choices not to buy proton - theres always the el-cheapo perodua kancil :P or taking the lame-@ss public transport.

to my views, its only business, nothing personal. even though i'm most likely in the same shoe as you are in, which so are many others in this forum.

the real robbers are the ones who tax us on road usage and yet still collect tol on our roads and providing us traffic jammed conditions. the real robbers are those who tax both u and me and other malaysians and provide us with crappy and unreliable public transportation. now thats what i call "robbers".

And the Klang Valley Mansion, the hospitals the leaks, MRR that closed down... too many... too many.....

[DPcanon]

Wanted to buy a Neo but was disappointed with the quality of parts. This Gen2.5 is going to be the same most likely. They just do not bother with customer feedback. Do they really think anyone is going to book the mystery car? Not me.

[Alan]

Wanted to buy a Neo but was disappointed with the quality of parts. This Gen2.5 is going to be the same most likely. They just do not bother with customer feedback. Do they really think anyone is going to book the mystery car? Not me.

DP, how's the hunt for a Volvo? Still on?

[duke916]

Wanted to buy a Neo but was disappointed with the quality of parts. This Gen2.5 is going to be the same most likely. They just do not bother with customer feedback. Do they really think anyone is going to book the mystery car? Not me.

I just need some slight ammendment here:

Do they really think anyone is going to book A PROTON? Not me

[duke916]

DP, how's the hunt for a Volvo? Still on?

DP hunting for a Volvo? too bad they don't bring in the 08 XC 70.... V50 T5 is a good go!!!!

[Alan]

DP hunting for a Volvo? too bad they don't bring in the 08 XC 70.... V50 T5 is a good go!!!!

Do you mean 08 V70 instead? :tongue_roll: BTW, V50 T5 is only an LPT, not really up to the true standards of older T5s. :(

[ShaolinTiger]

Latest shots of the Gen-2 Sedan.

http://stupe.lifelogger.com/media/photos0/478613_hvirvuqbkx_vlarge.jpg

What's with the ugly bling chrome 0_0

http://opstupe.blogspot.com/2007/07/proton-gen2-sedan.html

[duke916]

Do you mean 08 V70 instead? :tongue_roll: BTW, V50 T5 is only an LPT, not really up to the true standards of older T5s. :(

Nope, I mean the XC70, not the V70. And yes, V50 T5 is a different breed from the good old 850T5 or the 850 T5R (with Titan Rims!!!)

Used to drive a 850 T5 before moving on to XC 70, honestly, XC is such a let down.. My wife calls it "Elephant"......

[matcom]

100% agree with Jayhan. To get end product involved a huge money in this business. Still the fact is people want to see a change like our football. They wait for a long time to see some improvement. Albeit came out same old story and shameful. I think by doing r&d and so on, Proton should at least come out with a better interior and some improvement on safety standard. Some models in 4 or 5 years, interior parts start loosening and make some iritating noise. My friend bought Iswara 3 years ago, last year, need to thighten some of the nuts of the front body, near the engine. Its LOOSENING. Wow! I don't know what would happened if some of nuts come off/detach. My sister bought a Wira 5 years ago, just after 5 months bought, she need to change the gear parts. Luckily its under warranty. Power window?? Same story... These are something that happened and related with Proton. And this what they should focus on. Still they come out with same story. I hope the new line, has been sort out by Proton. Malaysian hope...

[dnc]

Prefer get an 2nd hand car...price below 50% of the new car....which can use the extra $$$ to mods to sports parts....more gripping, better handling and more power then new car.

[DPcanon]

ST......looks like a badly done modification.

[DPcanon]

Stopped hunting for a used Volvo & got a Civic instead.

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/4360/abe5616eko2.th.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=abe5616eko2.jpg)

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=930557331&size=l

[gothseph]

come to think about it... really really (thats 2 really) deeply, i'd rather use my modenas than buy and use protons. i had once and didn't like it. lucky i'd sold it.
but to complain in just this forum or any sort of talks wether on the streets or at the mamaks or in a virtual ones, it'll not affect the proton sales because they can't hear them. and malaysian have no choice for cheaper car.
if only all of protons users or 'critizens' submit their complaints formally, i know for sure they will improve really well. don't you guys agree with that?
my friends from britain always told me as Brits as being 'too Brits'. now can't we adapt their complaining and speak-the-things-out-loud habits to be one of ours instead of being if i may say, 'too malaysian'.
Good day mates.

[matcom]

How can ??? Its Malaysia not UK...

[ykgen]

ok folks.. i'm going for the launch today.. tell u more later..

[andretong]

ok folks.. i'm going for the launch today.. tell u more later..

take photos bro. inside and outside..:)

[ykgen]

i'm back.. the cheapest is rm44,999 n most expensive is rm55,800.. they r all 1.6 litre engine only 1 type...

i also went for their R3 drivers small little drift.. ok.. quite impressing to drift using a non-modified factory car..

ah... i will be only able to upload the pix this evening.. pls wait ya.. btw.. its called "Persona" the wira replacement model

[transit2]

i'm back.. the cheapest is rm44,999 n most expensive is rm55,800.. they r all 1.6 litre engine only 1 type...

i also went for their R3 drivers small little drift.. ok.. quite impressing to drift using a non-modified factory car..

ah... i will be only able to upload the pix this evening.. pls wait ya.. btw.. its called "Persona" the wira replacement model

Thanks for the information sharing! Looking towards to see those PERSONA!

[ykgen]

u can now go to proton show room to see aleady?

it uses 1.6L campro engine which is 16v dohc