Malaysian Newspapers and Photo Credits

[ShaolinTiger]

I've recently noticed (especially after having my photos used a few times) that the local papers often tend to 'forget' photo credits.

Even when they've specifically asked for them and who to credit, the article comes out and there's no credit.

After some studying of the papers and from my own experience I've noticed The Star seems very lax with photo credits..

Today for example I had some of my pics used in an article for RAGE (article here (http://rage.com.my/writeups/story.asp?file=/2008/1/24/mustread/20080124094937&sec=mustread)), and the front page pic was mine - no credits appeared even though they were requested and given.

The same happened in Berita Harian (front page in HIP section), credit info was requested but not used.

Perhaps it's a communication problem, or do the papers thing they are above the law?

Or do they just not care about intellectual property? The whole intellectual proprety thing seems to plague Malaysia in general.

But for papers you'd think they would be a little more careful.

I have noticed in The Star the only section with 100% photo credits (even for internal Star photograpers) is the sports section - with the majority of the pictures coming from AP or Reuters.

But as for the other sections it seems rather hit and miss.

NST seems a little more consistent with photo credits, but still missed them sometimes - I found an article with my pics and no credit (see here (http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/Sunpeople/Sunday/CoverStory/20071222160536/Article/index2_html)).

I have seen other people complain about this too.

My pics were used in Astro mag for January too - and no credit.

Can anyone shed any light on this? Or any thoughts in general are welcome.

[ND40]

Sometimes we get ignored. I had help a friend to shoot some process before. Something like how to style your hair or something... It is for their in-house magazine. Anyway how, i had request for credit.

He also had told his company this company. When i received the copy, I see no credits at all. Then they told me that was communication problems. Saying that publishing site ignore them and never include it in.

Sound like un-acceptable reason. But sometimes, for them, we are just too small. Yea, photographers are being ignored!! Especially the rights.

[kimberlycun]

Yes it's a problem for us PR people also. Sometimes when we manage to engage photographers on a pro bono basis and all they want is a tiny credit, it's really hard to get back to them and tell them that it didn't happen.

It sure seems like we didn't get the communication through eventhough we have constantly remind them media about the credits via email, sms and numerous phone calls. But when the papers turn out, no credit. I think this trend should stop already as it's really unfair to the photographers. It's not just using a tool and capturing what's there..it's composition, atmosphere, and thoughts that go into bringing the accompanying story to an exceptional level.

I wish the media here are more perceptive when it comes to picture crediting. It's equally as important as in crediting the writer!

In spite of seeing my face on the papers, I was dissapointed that ST was not credited for the pictures. And since it was me who had asked him to take the pictures, I feel compel to credit and thank him in my own blog as the paper, unfortunately was unable to do so :(

[astroboy]

I seldom get this problem with magazines. Even for commissioned jobs, they still give me credit even though there is no necessity as they already bought the rights from the beginning.

I guess it has to do with the local paper's "culture". Photos from local contributors are either "cheap" or "free" or so they think. Photos from syndicates eg Reuters etc they have to pay tens of thousands a year with a solid contract to ensure credits r not ommitted or else they get a lawyer's letter.

The question is: will u continue to contribute to Star etc? Chances are, your answer is YES... and therein lies the problem...:(

[ShaolinTiger]

I seldom get this problem with magazines. Even for commissioned jobs, they still give me credit even though there is no necessity as they already bought the rights from the beginning.

Yeah agree, so far with magazines I had no problems.


The question is: will u continue to contribute to Star etc? Chances are, your answer is YES... and therein lies the problem...:(

Well I haven't directly contributed, in all cases they are pictures of someone - either paid or free and the person has said the paper can use the pictures AS LONG as they credit the photographer.

Which they usually conveniently forget to do, and well I don't have much say in the matter.

[mac]

i've stoped contributing to the local papers for a long time, free photos also so susah wanna give credit. its shows their Editor don't appreciate freebies.

even some magazine 'forgets' very very sad

[noordin]

I'd expect the media to be very sensitive on this issue of ownership. But looks like they take contributers for granted! Typical! :(

[bimmer]

Send them a lawyer's notice. I'll bet they will be more careful the next time around.

[PSi]

Before calling your lawyer, make sure you read through carefully all the fine print in that written contract you have with the publication concerned.

[jetfynn]

I have this situation happen to me once. The magazine published a front page picture taken by me and they credited the picture to Unit Foto XXSB.

Was I mad at that time. Then again. Looking at the local magazine / newspapers attitude, maybe we could group together to demand our rights or at least let the editors know that our work should be credited when it's used or due.

[ShaolinTiger]

Before calling your lawyer, make sure you read through carefully all the fine print in that written contract you have with the publication concerned.

Contracts in Malaysia? Good luck with that...most people are lucky if they even have an employment contract for their full time job.

[PSi]

My point exactly ... so what's the use of talking about sending lawyer's letters?

[ShaolinTiger]

My point exactly ... so what's the use of talking about sending lawyer's letters?

None at all, although I have seen someone in a similar predicament go that route and it can work for them.

As not having a contract, it can back fire on the publication more than the photographer.

Because for me, it's easy to prove I own the copyright to the picture - I have the original RAW file plus other shots in a sequence next to it.

If the paper doesn't have written consent from me to publish my picture they have infringed Malaysian copyright law and I can screw them.

That's not the route I want to go though, I just want the papers to be more responsible with accreditation and show a little appreciate for the cheap or free pictures they are getting and the effort that went into creating them.

Accreditation is one of the key steps towards valuing intellectual property.

[PSi]

I have no disagreement with your views. Did you receive my PM?

[ShaolinTiger]

I have no disagreement with your views. Did you receive my PM?

Yah I did, still thinking about it.

[PSi]

I'd urge you to write in. At the very least, the RAGE editor will have some explaining to do.
It may achieve nothing ultimately, or it may achieve something, but certainly better odds of getting due credit than just complaining about it here.

[wic_98]

ST, i think for our goods..... member lar. Need write in to all the local news, i found many local news is very irresponsibles on this matter. Just take it for granted. :mad:

[mobbes]

Photos from local contributors are either "cheap" or "free" or so they think. Photos from syndicates eg Reuters etc they have to pay tens of thousands a year with a solid contract to ensure credits r not ommitted or else they get a lawyer's letter.

The question is: will u continue to contribute to Star etc? Chances are, your answer is YES... and therein lies the problem...:(
Well pointed out. It's quite obvious, isn't it? When you place a high value on yourself, you'll be respected. When you do for free, expect to be treated cheap like that lah .... 'cos that's the msg you're giving. And being apathetic, ie NATO, says you'll take it lying down

I'd urge you to write in. At the very least, the RAGE editor will have some explaining to do.
It may achieve nothing ultimately, or it may achieve something, but certainly better odds of getting due credit than just complaining about it here.

[ShaolinTiger]

Well pointed out. It's quite obvious, isn't it? When you place a high value on yourself, you'll be respected. When you do for free, expect to be treated cheap like that lah .... 'cos that's the msg you're giving. And being apathetic, ie NATO, says you'll take it lying down

I wish I lived in your World where things are so simple and you don't have to consider the consequences that actions you may take might effect other people. Plus you can just value yourself highly and everyone else will follow!

[PSi]

If you have a legitimate complaint, which you do, then you should take it to an appropriate authority that is able to address your complaint. You have the address.
If you choose not to, out of fear of "consequences", but continue to complain in a restricted forum of like-minded people who obviously agree with you, nothing will be achieved, the problem will continue.
If you write in and the problem still continues, then, by all means, complain here because it would mean no one else cares and there's nothing you can do about it except to stop giving your photos to anyone.
My point is, have you even tried?

[ShaolinTiger]

If you have a legitimate complaint, which you do, then you should take it to an appropriate authority that is able to address your complaint. You have the address.
If you choose not to, out of fear of "consequences", but continue to complain in a restricted forum of like-minded people who obviously agree with you, nothing will be achieved, the problem will continue.
If you write in and the problem still continues, then, by all means, complain here because it would mean no one else cares and there's nothing you can do about it except to stop giving your photos to anyone.
My point is, have you even tried?

I agree with your point, but I find the matter of individual complaints irrelevant. And I'm not so concerned with consequences, but unintended consequences which may effect others. It's not a witch hunt or finger pointing exercise, many people (writer, editor, sub-editor, layout and the subject) are involved and many things need to change.

I'm not so much complaining as that does achieve nothing, I'm questioning the general lack of respect for photographers and in a broader scale the general lack of respect for intellectual property in all forms.

What I'm more interested in is the overall views and experiences of others, I don't want a single complaint and a single rectification to be the end of it.

I'm after a more general approach to how we can solve the issues on a larger scale to ensure all publication start crediting photographers correctly. I don't particularly want anyone to get in trouble, or for anyone to get snubbed by the media because their photographer is rash.

The fact is the pictures are most likely not free, the subject has paid for them (as I primarily take pictures of people - this is most relevant to me) and all the subject asks is for the pictures to be credited to the photographer.

They may be free to the paper, but that doesn't make them worthless.

Finally is this something we can help to achieve by raising awareness to certain editors or people which can ensure processes are put in place to respect intellectual property.

[Mavik]

Interestingly, if you did actually send in a letter to the editor in regards to this post (perhaps to News Strait Times and Malay Mail), I really wonder if those other two papers will publish it. It would be rather funny I would think, seeing that you have a beef with the Star and then complain to another paper.

http://www.jeffooi.com/2008/01/post_77.php
http://twosen.com/

[PSi]

But these "certain editors or people which can ensure processes are put in place to respect intellectual property" do not know of your collective grievances. Even if they do, they probably think it's one or two isolated "lapses".
And they won't do anything if no one complains.

A general awareness among editors is the desired result but it has to start with the first complaint, reinforced by many more. .

I am aware of certain individuals who abuse their media positions to demand all kinds of favours in return for publicity. It seems "everyone" knows about it, but they continue to get away with it. Even the bosses are aware.
But without the all-important official complaints, they can't or won't act.
So the abuses continue.

What is the point of raising this issue in this forum if not to make photogs more aware, share experiences AND encourage them to take action?

[PSi]

Interestingly, if you did actually send in a letter to the editor in regards to this post (perhaps to News Strait Times and Malay Mail), I really wonder if those other two papers will publish it. It would be rather funny I would think, seeing that you have a beef with the Star and then complain to another paper.

http://www.jeffooi.com/2008/01/post_77.php
http://twosen.com/

You need to ask yourself what your primary objective is.
Is it:
A) Revenge? Embarrass one paper by writing to another may give you revenge, some satisfaction that the dastardly editor who did not give credit for your work is publicly humiliated. Mission accomplished. When you're done humilating all the editors, where would you like your photos published?

B) Credit? You should ask for it, keep asking for it and, if there is a consistent pattern of lapses, complaint to the editor's superiors.

[astroboy]

I am continuing this just for the sake of debate lah. Both mobbes and ST touch on the same point, RESPECT.

I think the self-respecting "author" (be it photog, writer, etc) can help matters by being selective and "boycott" certain media that do not respect IP.

I know lots of folks who rush in to contribute to media without specifying terms... they r just happy get published.

For me, the FIRST question I ask is, how much do I get paid? You can say I am mercenary but it's business for me.

I only do charity for non-profit orgs. :)



Well pointed out. It's quite obvious, isn't it? When you place a high value on yourself, you'll be respected. When you do for free, expect to be treated cheap like that lah .... 'cos that's the msg you're giving. And being apathetic, ie NATO, says you'll take it lying down

I'm questioning the general lack of respect for photographers and in a broader scale the general lack of respect for intellectual property in all forms.