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View Full Version : so you wanna get a filem camera but dunno where to start...


matikatak
02-26-2008, 03:18 PM
So not you have got your digital slr and have been shooting cups, saucers and everything and anything in the house. You have got a few lenses and think that you will hold off buying them for a moment.
But…. There is still an itch… with any luck, there are still some funds left in your year end bonus and you have not really lost all your ang pow money gambling. So here’s the thing, there’s an itch to scratch and there are some loose change in the pocket. You thought, what the heck, let’s go film. Getting new lenses are so yesterday. There is not much bragging righst in getting new lenses except exotic ones. Getting a film camera gives you much much bigger bragging rights.

But… the thing is, you know nuts about film camera. So how buy one without getting screwed?

Fear not, here I list down a few things to look for when getting a film camera. Actually not necessarily film camera, but more to a mechanical camera.
1. Before anything, if it is a mechanical camera, hold it near your ear and turn it a bit. Try to listen if there are any loose parts. If there are, then it is probably a sign of issue. But mind you that not all sounds you hear means that there is something wrong. Some parts e.g. the film take up might be designed to be lost and will move around a bit when film is not loaded. So you have to make your judgement.
2. Check the exterior of the camera for any dings, scratches or brassing. Dings and scratches could be sign of camera being dropped before. For a well used cameras do expect the corners to be either dinged or scratched. Dings and scratches can indicate severity/condition of the camera depending of the location. E.g. if the ding is on the top plate, then you might want to be careful because that is where the metering and most of the sensitive parts are located (e.g. rf mechanism for rangefinders). If it is at the bottomplate, you might want to check if the back can be closed properly. Do take note of the hinges if it is on the hinged side. If it is on the latch side, check if the latch can close the door properly. Just use common sense when it comes to dings and scratches.
3. Check the light seal. Basically the camera body is supposed to be a light tight box. Most of the parts should be intact, but for a film camera, the area that is of concern is on the camera back. First look for any dents at the edges. Dents may indicate a non perfect seal (therefore light leak). Next, look at the seal itself. Depending on the camera model the seal can be a simple mechanical one or can sometimes be a thin layer of black sponge. The latter is the one that normally cause issue. Because in some cases the sponge degrades and flake off. Try to run your finger through the sponge and see if there are any flaking. If there is, then you might want to rethink. Another thing to note is that some cameras have a small window so that you can see what film is loaded after the door is closed. Sheck the area around the window for light leaks.
4. If it is a fixed lens camera, check the lens for fungus. To do that, set the shutter speed to bulb (B) and then open the film cover. Turn the aperture ring to the maximum aperture (means open it wide wide). Look through the lens and see if you can see any fungus. If there are any, they are normally at the edge of the lens. Fungus looks like some fine lines. Something sort of like spider webs. If the fungus are minor and at the edge, you can still consider, but for me personally I try not to because depending on the condition, fungus can spread very fast.
5. Then check the film chamber. Check pressure plate on the door, it should be flat and normally is. This is the plate that presses your film flat on the camera so that film sits accurately on the focus point. Check the area around the cavity between the lens and the film. The most important thing to look for is any sharp or abnormal points that will scratch the film. Unlike a digital camera, there are mechanical movement in a film camera. The main concern from this is the risk of dust or nicks to scratch the film when it is being wind from frame to frame. Look the area that the camera comes into contact with the camera and make sure that they are smooth and will not scratch the film.
6. Check the shutter. If it is an interchangeable lens camera, look at the shutter door look for any abnormality. E.g. oil stains, mechanical defects, scratch marks etc. the shutter is the most important part and if there are any abnormality, it is normally and indication of issues.
7. Check for signs of previous services. Look at the screws. If the camera or lens have been opened post assembly, there are normally small nicks on the screw head. It will just seem not right. If it have been serviced, ask the seller on what are the thing being serviced and repaired.
8. Check the metering accuracy. Bring your camera and take the metering with it. Then meter the same condition with the camera you plan to buy. You get the point… but as a fadditional note is to load a roll of slides and shoot. Slides are very unforgiving on exposure issues and the result will show, also, unlike print film it cannot be corrected post development. So it is an indication of exposure accuracy.
9. Lastly do the usual walk through. Click here click there, press here press thera nd asee if there are any issues. Check the electrical contacts (if any), check for smoothness of moving parts etc.

These are the items that I can think of at the moment. If anyone else have additional or want to correct me do chip in.

noruazumi
02-26-2008, 03:34 PM
a very good write-up. a lot of info that i never aware of. thanks, mate!

anyway, it is also good to do some research about the camera that u plan to buy. it will help you to get some ideas on what you are expecting when testing out the camera. for example, battery for the metering component. i almost forgot to check this when i bought my FM2n. luckily i remembered based on my reading the other day. it was my very first analog camera, so please excuse my silly-ness. :redface:

Alan
02-26-2008, 03:35 PM
10. Run through the shutter speeds one at a time. You should hear the speeds increase or decreasing progressively. Go through them for several cycles, they should be consistent. If they don't sound right or consistently faster/slower, you could have a jammed or sticky shutter.

11. Open the back, point the camera towards some light and repeat step 10. The light coming through the brief moment the shutter is opened will give you a visual gauge in addition to the sounds. Be aware that this cannot be done on certain cameras that will only fire at a fixed shutter speed until the film counter reaches 1.

beyond
02-26-2008, 04:25 PM
ANd if they have built in meter, how to check if it is functioning properly?

Alan
02-26-2008, 05:41 PM
ANd if they have built in meter, how to check if it is functioning properly?

The only positive way to test the meter is to try it against another camera or light meter that is known to be accurate.

ShaolinTiger
02-26-2008, 05:43 PM
Yeah just take your digital camera and meter the same place, preferably use spot metering if it's available on both cameras.

But Evaluative or Matrix should give similar results for the same scene too.

beyond
02-26-2008, 07:46 PM
Someone mentioned to me that If I meter a fluorescnet light. It will give a reading ( I forgot what reading liao)

moshpit21
02-27-2008, 09:05 AM
"8. Check the metering accuracy. Bring your camera and take the metering with it. Then meter the same condition with the camera you plan to buy. You get the point… but as a fadditional note is to load a roll of slides and shoot. Slides are very unforgiving on exposure issues and the result will show, also, unlike print film it cannot be corrected post development. So it is an indication of exposure accuracy."

most of old film camera's internal metering uses center weighted..

-peace-

matikatak
02-27-2008, 10:18 AM
"8. Check the metering accuracy. Bring your camera and take the metering with it. Then meter the same condition with the camera you plan to buy. You get the point… but as a fadditional note is to load a roll of slides and shoot. Slides are very unforgiving on exposure issues and the result will show, also, unlike print film it cannot be corrected post development. So it is an indication of exposure accuracy."

most of old film camera's internal metering uses center weighted..

-peace-

betul tu... so better to meter off a general evenly lighted area to do this check

moshpit21
02-27-2008, 10:50 AM
betul tu... so better to meter off a general evenly lighted area to do this check

or just change ur dslr metering to center weighted :D

-peace-

noruazumi
02-27-2008, 10:53 AM
dSLR got a few settings on the center weighted. can change the diameter of the center. so how?

moshpit21
02-27-2008, 10:56 AM
wohooo.. i learn new thing.. :)

hmmm didnt know that, coz all the DSLRs i've own dont have such thing..

thx noruazumi for pointing it out :cool:

-peace-

Alan
02-27-2008, 12:07 PM
Meter off a plain wall, plain cloudless sky or white piece of paper. When you meter of an object with the same continous lighting across it, the center has the same exposure with the outer parts of the frame. You will cancel out the center weighting which will not bias the exposure and as a result, you will get the same exposure in all center weighted modes.

matikatak
02-27-2008, 02:12 PM
Ok. Great. You have seen those jokers shooting with film and bought in to the “ooohh. Those digital will never be better than filem” propaganda. In the heat of the excitement you plonk in a pile of cash and got yourself a filem camera. You quick quick go home and log on to your favorite forum and diligently add your name into the “Filem Users Unite!” thread. Done! You now have certified bragging rights.

But then after a while when your head cleared a bit… reality strike. You know nuts about what to do with with your kamera. Being the gullible fool you believed everything when the seller say “aiyah, no need manual one la, this is an easy kamera and you sure know how to use one la”. (I also don’t want to mention that actually you are a bit apprehensive buying without manual, but you know that your ego will be dented if you say “I must have manual, else I dunno how to use this kamera”… I know … because I got a fragile ego too…).
All you know is that you have to put filem into it. and because you are too scared to waste filem you did not load any and just blank shoot the wall, floor, door or anything outside.

So you post in forums asking this and that but kena taro because you asked noob question that was asked ten thousand and forty three times before. And to add salt to injury, some seberang mayat took a cheap shot at you and post a “Pordah! Cakap tak serupa bikin! Everyday talk only no show photo pun. All talk and no photo just like that Webster guy!”. (of course the guy got a slap on the wrist but you and I know that the damage is done)

So fear not, I have some information here that might help to get you started. They are not comprehensive because as everyone knows, I am not all knowing, but I think it should be enough for you to ‘Speak the lingo’ at camera shop and save you from being laughed at by the shop owner’s 12 year old kid.

OK let’s get to the point before I get another ‘long winded’ post comment.
On have you have your camera and the other item you need to make ‘great’ images (notice that I put great in quotes ) is film. When you talk about film there are essentially three to four types depending on the result that you want.

1. Color negatives/color print film. This is the most common one. This is the one that look like the sai brown color when kit is developed. Essentially the color on the film is the opposite spectrum of the color it is supposed to represent. Meaning skin tones will show up as green in the negatives. That’s the reason for the term negative. The end result for viewing purpose is an image printed on photographic paper. This is the most common film and process that is still employed due to the fact that more people (including casual shooters) are using it. Some points or terms you can use to impress the ladies are terms like C41 (pronounced as ‘see forty one). This is basically the process to develop this type of film.

2. Then there is the black and white negatives film. Basically this is a negative film and it only records black and white (if you want to sound arty you can also say monotone). Due to the fact that the development process is easier (read as more tolerant) a lot of photographers do their own development. But one thing you need to note when talking about developing BW film is that there is this sub category of BW film. It’s called chromo-something-something-genic film. Basically it’s still BW film but the developing process is C-41 (see I am using that arty term liao) so that casual users who want to try BW can easily send it to be developed at a normal lab set up for color print film (which is much much more common). So when you byw BW film, make sure which type you buy. The 2 brands that I know of are Kodak BW400cn and the Konica VX400cn (or something like that), there should be others too but I dunno (and probably don’t really care as of now). I don’t think the make the Konica one anymore, so you are left with the Kodak one.

3. Slides/Transparencies/Color positives. This is basically the opposite of the color negative film. Meaning the color on the film is the same as the color it is supposed to represent. It is supposedly able to product more vivid color. But the downside is that it is very unforgiving when it comes to exposure. Meaning, if you screw up on the exposure… habis la. Another downside of this type of film is that it is getting harder and harder to get. Want to develop alsy very hard to find liao  But having said that, if you see the result from slides… Foooooshhhh!. Other tit bits of information is that the development process is called E6 (pronounced as ee six). So if you wanna be a jerk and impress the ladies say “Dei! This is e6 processing you know. Don’t screw up ah!” when you send your film for processing. Also, do mention if you want the slides mounted (put your film into that small white frame) or not. Normally they will mount it for you. Another thing is that normally you will see the word ‘chrome’ on the name of the slide film. Not really significant to the end result but just another random term to impress the girls.

4. Infra red film. Don’t even bother looking for this film. Like it’s namesake, it records images in the infra red spectrum.

5. Instant/Polaroid ™: Prior to the days of digital photography when it takes a few days/hours to get the result of your shots, this company came up with the fantastic idea of making a camera and film that produces the result instantly. It didn’t really caught on in a big way here. Due to the fact that you can only have only one copy and that you need a different camera for that. There are still some photographers that uses this film on their medium format cameras but if you are reading this I don’t think you are using a Medium format.


I know I know, there will be some smart ka chng out there who say that I miss this and that, so if id did then tambah lo. Like I mention earlier, I am not all knowing.
kamsiah

silentshutter
03-03-2008, 03:32 PM
Yeah just take your digital camera and meter the same place, preferably use spot metering if it's available on both cameras.

But Evaluative or Matrix should give similar results for the same scene too.

actually, it's better to use sunny 16 metering or eye metering or even a light meter to compare the result rather than meter with a TTL machine.

bokehGalore
03-03-2008, 08:42 PM
nahh who needs TTL metering, expensive ext. light meter mambo jumbo..check out the "2d matrix metering" on the back of a Rolleicord , super high tech in its time (in the thirties of cause)...and the batteries last forever..hekhekhek

moshpit21
03-04-2008, 07:45 AM
nahh who needs TTL metering, expensive ext. light meter mambo jumbo..check out the "2d matrix metering" on the back of a Rolleicord , super high tech in its time (in the thirties of cause)...and the batteries last forever..hekhekhek

nice one!! :D

-peace-

beyond
03-04-2008, 08:33 AM
How to read the diagram. I can make out the ISO only.

bokehGalore
03-04-2008, 07:30 PM
Say ure skiing in the French Alps with ur wife and suddenly ur missus said "lo kong, how come u dont take my picture meh..do i look fat! dont u luv me anymore?." not knowing to her that, ur dslr batteries froze & the damn camera couldn't switch on! luckily u bring ur Leica R6.2 along (come on, ure in the french alps for god sake of cause u can afford a leica) but ur leica also dont hv any batteries because u bought it solely for the bragging right + u can join the “Filem Users Unite!” thread with it..

so how to take a picture with a meterless battery less camera, how to save ur ego, how to answer those answerless questions bombarded to u by ur wife, much worse...HOW TO SAVE UR MARRIAGE?

Of cause u can, providing u hv a 200 asa film & below charts..the EV no. will be 16 and if the aperture is set to F8, the s.speed is 1/1000th..now u can take perfectly exposed pictures & hv ur manhood back!! huhu!!:cool:

beyond
03-04-2008, 07:44 PM
Thanks!!!!!! Now I can print it out and keep!
Lets talk about the pic.

pic 1: Skiing (all white)
Pic 2: Under hot sun?
Pic 3: Under hot sun again?
Pic 4: Shaded
Pic 5: A lot of shade
Pic 6: Beach ( Issit same as Pic 1[setting])