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  #21  
Old 04-20-2007, 02:14 PM
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kckong kckong is offline
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As my little 18m-old fella would say when he drops anything ... uh oh

Seriously, I like the pics esp the last one's "coming round the bend" composition. TFS
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  #22  
Old 04-20-2007, 02:16 PM
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lanatir lanatir is offline
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Aloha,

Salon photography is a style of photography where in a nutshell, the photographer wants to achieve a particular shot by attempting to exercise total control over all the variable. A salon photo exhibits all the traits of a good photo in technical, compositional and artistic aspects because the photog choose to control the lighting, composition and subject way beyond spontaneity. There has been much debate on this issue as seen in this thoughtful article on the subject...

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography...html/salon.htm

I find that while salon photos are excellent photos, I am not a fan of the artform. This is because I've seen or heard some instances where a photo wins a competition but we find out that the situation in the photo is completely setup e.g. paying a bald old man to sit in some old robes and smoke a long thin pipe in an old hut with light streaming in through the window. In another case, this photog had a wonderful pic of a man in a straw hat cycling across a paddy field causing a silhouette in the sunset... and that man was actually paid to repeatedly cycle across the scene until the shot was achieved.

In the case of your photos, I cannot but wonder how the kid ended up with the big red umbrella. Or why in the 1st photo, the person in the shadow has a hat on and yet still needs an umbrella (which incidentally looks like the same umbrella the kid has).

Some people say that the trick is the make salon photos not look like they were setup especially when subjects are shot in their native environment.
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  #23  
Old 04-20-2007, 03:07 PM
Aloha Lavina Aloha Lavina is offline
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@lanatir: Thanks for the clarification. The woman with the umbrella was a spontaneous salon. She was standing outside the temple in Bagan, backlit and holding an open umbrella. Nice idea happened, salon shot. The monk bathing? I ran down the hill and snapped. The small monks? Same thing. By the way the kid with the umbrella is about 200 miles away from the woman with the umbrella, in another region of the country. His dad makes umbrellas. He is probably another salon shot, according to the definition. But the woman with the jar...I turned and there she was. Click.

But the woman with the umbrella recently sold a print for 400 US. Does that mean salon shots are more marketable? If so, are they permissible to do as a living, and then whatever a photographer creates apart from that is what we call 'art'? Kind of confused why there has to be a delineation, after all, didn't Da Vinci pose Mona Lisa to start with?

Can you post a photo which is spontaneous and for which you did not decide if the light was good or not, and it still follows the elements of good design, please. So I can see what isn't 'salon'. Thanks.
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  #24  
Old 04-20-2007, 03:10 PM
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Salon shots generally are more marketable, hence the name. They are extremely often blown up large and hung in Salons/Shops/Coffee Houses and Restaurants.

If they are art or not is the debate, and is a spontaneous photograph better than a salon photograph? There is no answer, it's down to personal taste.

Salon is a style by itself, some people live by it, some people hate it.

That's just the way it is, you should always be prepared for that if you are doing something different, not everyone will like it
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  #25  
Old 04-20-2007, 03:17 PM
Aloha Lavina Aloha Lavina is offline
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OK, thanks. I think it'll be more fun if we go beyond labeling everything and just do what we do...which is make pictures the best way we know how. and maybe try to be supportive of each other.

Too bad that we have to put creative attempts into boxes. Sometimes those things are like crabs, and we put them in boxes and that breaks their legs.

Just my two cents worth.
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  #26  
Old 04-20-2007, 03:34 PM
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First off, congratulations on the success of your photos. What ST said reflects what is said in the article.

Photography in itself is personal. It is, like all other forms of art, reflective of the creativity of the individual (though saying this would be redundant to an accomplished photog like you). And indeed they are more marketable because photogs can create photos to suit the market needs (as seen by many marketable photos in photo libraries suited for use in corporate publications e.g. people shaking hands over a business deal).

Looking back at the thread, while I have never said that salon is an illegitimate form of photographic art (just that I don't like that path as we all know photography is personal), I think you have taken offense at the use of what some people may consider to be the dirty 'S' word. If you have then I apologize.

Moving forward, since you did mention that you wanted further clarification for improving your photo, I have nothing more to offer apart from the guilty act of labelling.
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  #27  
Old 04-22-2007, 08:32 PM
Aloha Lavina Aloha Lavina is offline
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Over and out

Well said, lanatir. I accept the apology and wish to move on. Perhaps a little wary of posting in this forum in future, but nevertheless appreciative of the new knowledge that has expanded my sensibilities.

Best of luck.

Aloha Lavina
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  #28  
Old 04-23-2007, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloha Lavina View Post
Well said, lanatir. I accept the apology and wish to move on. Perhaps a little wary of posting in this forum in future, but nevertheless appreciative of the new knowledge that has expanded my sensibilities.

Best of luck.

Aloha Lavina
Aloha, I hope you aren't put off posting in the forum as we are trying to promote a feeling of openness here, where people should be open to criticism and able to accept that perhaps their picture is not perfect, or maybe some people just don't like it.

We are trying to steer clear of the elitism felt in many other places and place everyone on a level playing ground.

We hope that everyone doesn't feel fear when giving their opinion or constructive criticism and we hope everyone who hopes pictures does so with the humility to accept such criticism and comments.

That's the concept anyway.
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  #29  
Old 04-24-2007, 01:10 PM
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The first Picture was nice. Nice silouhette ( if not mistaken wif the spelling )
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  #30  
Old 04-30-2007, 11:39 AM
Aloha Lavina Aloha Lavina is offline
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Originally Posted by ShaolinTiger View Post
Aloha, I hope you aren't put off posting in the forum as we are trying to promote a feeling of openness here, where people should be open to criticism and able to accept that perhaps their picture is not perfect, or maybe some people just don't like it.

We are trying to steer clear of the elitism felt in many other places and place everyone on a level playing ground.

We hope that everyone doesn't feel fear when giving their opinion or constructive criticism and we hope everyone who hopes pictures does so with the humility to accept such criticism and comments.

That's the concept anyway.
I appreciate the intentions, ST. Yes, everyone is welcome to their opinion and likes and dislikes, so on and so forth. I wish everyone well.

Honestly, I was quite thankful for the episode of the salon thingy--it made me realize that I needed to spend more time learning how to take better pictures than spending time talking about it.

As for criticism and comments, yes, I welcome those just like any person who wants to improve at something. Does anyone like "Good shot" or the ubiquitous "Nice capture" without ever wishing for gentle suggestions for improvement? I think it's certainly safe to say that learning comes from constructive criticism. But is labeling constructive? With all due respect to the other Shutter Asia members who post opinions, <i>a one liner is not really constructive in the real sense of constructive</i>, ST. Let's face it. So I didn't learn anything from the two labeling posts except the fact that it labeled my photos, and that really does not help me be a better photographer, thus my decision. Perhaps we can clarify that constructive criticism includes things like advice, suggestions, specificity, and a logical progression of thought.

As I said, I really wish to move on. Thanks for the time and energy you spend on this great idea of a forum. Best wishes, as always, Aloha.
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