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  #11  
Old 06-04-2008, 09:45 AM
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noruazumi noruazumi is offline
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come to think of it, the market is open for everybody.
yes, cheap charges will kill the pro's who charge based on the market prices. but hey, talented people will not be stupid enough to put such a low price on the talent. and client will not be stupid enough to expect high quality images for such a low price. that's fair and square, IMHO.

plus, why the "newbies" wanna help the pro's market? did the pro's ever helped the "newbies" to develop themselves? as far as i know, the pro charge for the workshops, talks, etc. well, some pro doing it for free as "giving back to the community". but mostly, no. spend time in public forums to give helps, guidances & advices? hell no... so yeah, why need to help the pro? if the pro really pro, they shouldn't be worry about these minor issue.

Last edited by noruazumi; 06-04-2008 at 09:47 AM..
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  #12  
Old 06-04-2008, 09:46 AM
icyages icyages is offline
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Free job for friend is most welcome and show how u will value the friendship. i guess that is all about friendship for helping and supporting each other.

If ur friend pay u to do the job but ended up not meet their expectation (could be due to many factors beyond your control) or just a sh*t-happen scenario, how u gonna face him/her later?? u might lose a friend even a good friend coz u could ruin his/her best day in life. Because an expectation from paid job and free job is somehow not equal!!

Even if u r the pro, u will still educate them for the expectation u could get them.

What u about to do i dun think it will kill the market but will help u in any way coz you are doing it out of goodwill.

IMHO, if u think ur friend is not sincere of the relationship why bother!!
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  #13  
Old 06-04-2008, 10:33 AM
karheng karheng is offline
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Doing a free job to help boost your portfolio is fine. Charging low market rates if you are not very experienced is also fine. If you are being hunted by interested parties, then your value has just increased. Pros do not worry about such stuff because they are constantly hunted and have their schedule filled up already.

It's non pros like us who want to do part time and/or build up a portfolio who are being treated like carp simply because we have either no portfolio to show off, or simply because most of the 'general' public think we are just camera-man who are there to help save their event happenings on paper.

Little do many of them know the work we do after the session.

But like it or not, even if you are doing for free or for a low fee to cover your costs, you should be giving your best photos and not your worst because that is your name and your professionalism at stake. Your work is your testament of your name and that is the first tool of marketing for an event photographer.
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  #14  
Old 06-04-2008, 11:06 AM
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desaintlights desaintlights is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noruazumi View Post
yes, cheap charges will kill the pro's who charge based on the market prices. but hey, talented people will not be stupid enough to put such a low price on the talent. and client will not be stupid enough to expect high quality images for such a low price. that's fair and square, IMHO.
i like this part most ! that's really the way it is suppose to be. then again, you must also bared in mind that there are some VERY "stupid" clients who expect high quality photos - high price and then complain later....

Quote:
Originally Posted by noruazumi View Post
plus, why the "newbies" wanna help the pro's market? did the pro's ever helped the "newbies" to develop themselves? as far as i know, the pro charge for the workshops, talks, etc. well, some pro doing it for free as "giving back to the community". but mostly, no. spend time in public forums to give helps, guidances & advices? hell no... so yeah, why need to help the pro? if the pro really pro, they shouldn't be worry about these minor issue.
no newbies need to help the pro's market bro.... the newbies should be helping themselves so that they won't spoil the market when they turn pro. Of course, unless they dun want to turn pro and that's completely another story.


i really think (after reading all the posting), we all have common understanding of who deserve the FREE treat and who doesn't. for TRUE friend, hell I don't mind....
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  #15  
Old 06-04-2008, 11:13 AM
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ShaolinTiger ShaolinTiger is offline
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I agree with some of what has been said and disagree with some, the sad fact is in Malaysia clients on the whole want high quality pics and low price.

They don't care much about artistry or style or presentation and very few are willing to pay a premium for it.

They don't care how much time it takes you to process the RAW files or how much care you take.

They expect you just press the shutter, burn the pics to CD and pass to them.

As for charging low if you are inexperienced, I don't agree with that as it spoils the market.

People come to know about it, use it as a bargaining chip and some people who are new give great pictures...but still charge way to cheap.

It dilutes the value of what everyone is doing, either do it free for experience and less expectation or charge properly.

I think there should be some kind of photographic society that sets baseline prices and brackets photographers (junior, senior, top-level etc) and sets a minimum price for services. It'd end up better for all of us, then if someone charges under the baseline....we can whack them

In some ways it's currently regulated, I discuss things with certain other photographers including prices and we all come to an agreement for service A we will charge a minimum of RMXXXX.
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  #16  
Old 06-04-2008, 11:47 AM
Falcone Falcone is offline
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I'm against doing for free even among friends, cause the problem is when u start charging zero fees, then this how I foresee in the future

'Hi, my budy..... can you shoot my wedding?'
'Err sure, that's gonna cost u RMXXX'
'How come u do it free for XXX?'
'Oh errr that was because I wanted portfolio mah. So do free lor.'
'Hai then I let u use our wedding as your portfolio lor. We friend friend mah.'
'Cannot lar like that. Then I makan what?'
'Hai easy U come to our dinner shoot, got free food lar.'
'Like that meh?'
'We married use a lot of money oledy, no budget ler. please lar. We so good friend dun tell me XXX more friend than me'
'.......'

Well we all got to start somewhere, just be careful who you choose to shoot for free cause once you start doing for free there is no turning back.
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  #17  
Old 06-04-2008, 11:50 AM
karheng karheng is offline
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Ah well ST. In example...

Photographer A - portfolio all online...lots of experience..photos are amazing..charges 5k for 1 event. PRO

Photographer B - no portfolio online, less experience than photog A, photos are above average, charges 1 to 1.5k for 1 event. Part time

Photographer C - portfolio online, as experienced as photog B, photos are above average, charges 2k for 1 event. part time

Photographer D - budding photog, not much experience, photos are just acceptable, charges Rm 300 for 1 event. Amateur

Photographer E - portfolio online...lots of experience...photos are above average - charges Rm 500-rm 1000 for 1 event. Pro

Now...if you were the hiring couple, who would you choose. We don't know for sure who charges what so let's assume.

The general well to do couple who don't know too much about photography will hire photog E.

The budget conscious will hire Photog D

Those who appreciate great shots and have lots of budget will hire photog A.

THe question is who hires photogs B and C?

The problem comes when the couple looks for options and one fella offers 2k and one more 1k....then someone who earns a living from photography pushes their rates at Rm 700 but has portfolios to speak of as well because they are full time.

Lots of us are in that B & C bracket because we bother. If we don't want to do it for less, people will just choose other options. And trust me, there are fellas out there who offer their services for less than 1k and have very good photos to boot. Consumers tend to look for bang for the buck, ask yourself when you buy camera gear...am i right?

For someone with not much experience, it is tough to charge 1-2k per event so that it doesn't spoil the market.

Well there is a saying, you pay for what you get. And also,.

If you cannot offer me the same attractive budget, there is always some one else who will do it for cheaper.

So there goes the dilemma...and i believe this is not the only forum where people are ranting this problem....
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  #18  
Old 06-04-2008, 11:55 AM
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ShaolinTiger ShaolinTiger is offline
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Yeah it's endemic everywhere due to the much lower entry level into photography, in film days it was high.

When digital started it was still a bit expensive.

Now it's relatively cheap and everyone is a photographer.

It seems a lot of people in this thread are thinking only from the perspective of weddings, which is not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking in general terms, weddings is the most competitive market right now and there are cheap and good photographers around.

If you want to go into wedding market, weekend warrior or not, prepare to fight hard.
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  #19  
Old 06-04-2008, 11:58 AM
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noruazumi noruazumi is offline
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when i grow up, i want to be event photographer shooting concerts, gigs & shows.
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  #20  
Old 06-04-2008, 12:05 PM
karheng karheng is offline
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Yea...the money really comes from events such as concerts and gigs, but there is the media dudes to do that already.

I was offered to shoot an event in a club for Rm 300 only.......no names..
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